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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 07/31/2009 : 21:54:55 [Permalink]
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Still a big cat. The video quality sucks so bad that you can't get a clear look at it, but the smooth gait looks feline to me.
Also, I'm sure the UK has its share of people who (legally and illegally) privately own exotic cats.
So it could be anything from a large housecat (as filthy said, some domestics like the Maine Coon Cat get rather large) to an exotic cat escaped from some private owner. Or anything in between, including a Felis silvestris silvestris, or some crossbreed of an escaped exotic and one of the native wildcats.
Its not possible to tell from the video.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 08/01/2009 : 02:31:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Here's a screen cap from the video, filthy, just to give you an idea. It's pretty grainy.
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Thanks Double H & 'mooner!
It's a dog. Note the attitude of the tail; no cat carries it's tail raised and curved in such a fashion when walking or running, and not very often nor for very long otherwise.
Also, the quality of the pictures make it suspect. What with the state of the photographic arts today, there is no excuse for blurry or grainy pictures.
I'm beginning to wonder if someone is not indulging in a bit of subtle, British humor at the expense of the less-than-subtle British media and their readers. If so, well done!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2009 : 04:27:56 [Permalink]
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| the footage was taken by an off-duty Ministry of Defence police dog handler using a camera-phone. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2009 : 10:41:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
It's a dog. Note the attitude of the tail; no cat carries it's tail raised and curved in such a fashion when walking or running, and not very often nor for very long otherwise.
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I disagree filthy. In the video, when the beast leaves the track and enters the brush, it waves it's tail in a very cat-like, not-at-all-dog-like fasion. Its grace in moving in the video clearly identifies it as feline.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2009 : 11:52:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by filthy
It's a dog. Note the attitude of the tail; no cat carries it's tail raised and curved in such a fashion when walking or running, and not very often nor for very long otherwise.
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I disagree filthy. In the video, when the beast leaves the track and enters the brush, it waves it's tail in a very cat-like, not-at-all-dog-like fasion. Its grace in moving in the video clearly identifies it as feline.
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I wish I could get the damnable video to work. it's something to do with Adobe Flash Player, that I know squat about.
Dogs can move quite gracefully and, like all tailed animals, use that appendage for balance. However, look closely at the tail as the animal goes into the brush. See if the tail from about half way out to the tip bends. In a cat, it could, with a dog, it won't.
Not exactly a sure tell, but the best I can do without actually seeing the flick. 'Till then, I'm still thinking "dog" with the tail as the giveaway. It is certainly not a leopard -- heh, the tail isn't long enough. A cat's tail will be a bit longer in proportion to it's body than a dog's.
This is turnin' into a hell of a tale, ain't it?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2009 : 13:00:21 [Permalink]
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Mab is correct. It's a cat all right, Filthy. The fourth dimension of movement makes that clear. It can even be seen walking swiftly along on a single rail, an feat that a dog -- or a larger cat -- would have great trouble doing, if they could do it at all.
It makes the slinky, flexible-spine movements of a cat throughout the clip. Its movements (which begin with rolling and frolicking in some weeds) imply to me a happy cat it its home range, one probably very familiar with its urban environment. Its tail is all over the place, actually, not just held up curved as you see in the stills. I think you'd agree it's a cat in a few seconds if you could see it move.
The big question is, how large is the cat? I think I have it pegged at under 36 inches.
Here's a YouTube version of the video. Maybe you can play that one?
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 08/01/2009 13:07:25 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2009 : 13:10:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Mab is correct. It's a cat all right, Filthy. The fourth dimension of movement makes that clear. It can even be seen walking swiftly along on a single rail, an feat that a dog -- or a larger cat -- would have great trouble doing, if they could do it at all.
It makes the slinky, flexible-spine movements of a cat throughout the clip. Its movements (which begin with rolling and frolicking in some weeds) imply to me a happy cat it its home range, one probably very familiar with its urban environment. Its tail is all over the place, actually, not just held up curved as you see in the stills. You'd agree it's a cat in two seconds if you could see it move.
The big question is, how large is the cat? I think I have it pegged at under 36 inches.
Here's the YouTube version of the video. Maybe you can play that one?
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Again, I'm not certain of any of this. If you watch the video, the tail is held up for most of the time, at least 90%, with what appears to be "curling" possibly being just "wagging." The resolution of the video is so poor that I don't think a proper determination can be made. Similarly with the "walking along a single rail" bit. I think it only appears the animal is walking along the rail. I think it's actually walking alongside the rail, but again the low resolution obscures where the feet are actually placed. I, for one, am not convinced that it isn't' a dog.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2009 : 13:24:04 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Again, I'm not certain of any of this. If you watch the video, the tail is held up for most of the time, at least 90%, with what appears to be "curling" possibly being just "wagging." The resolution of the video is so poor that I don't think a proper determination can be made. Similarly with the "walking along a single rail" bit. I think it only appears the animal is walking along the rail. I think it's actually walking alongside the rail, but again the low resolution obscures where the feet are actually placed. I, for one, am not convinced that it isn't' a dog. |
Your uncertainty is well-justified. It is a terrible video. Sometimes the tail can't be seen at all, for instance. I've been trying to interpret what I see, but other interpretations (even though wrong ) are justified, especially "I can't tell" interpretations. But I think I have the size of the critter correct at under three feet, nose to base of tail. Which is within the range of adult house cats.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 08/01/2009 13:25:39 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2009 : 13:55:15 [Permalink]
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I am thinking that trying to use the width of the track as a guide is fraught with possible errors, since the depth-of-field can play tricks. That yellow post is probably only 3 or 4 feet tall, but putting a ruler on the screen, it's taller than the tracks are wide (in other words, I think the track-width suffers from foreshortening).
Plus, I don't think the animal is ever really perpendicular to the rails (parallel with the ties) while close to them, which would be the best way to guage its size.
I suspect that if the animal were shown in-between the rails, crossing them, everyone would be saying, "oh, that's a domestic shorthair." Perhaps a male on the large end of the distribution, but a housecat nonetheless.
My favorite big cat.
Edited to add that I missed Mooner's post on the previous page where he discusses the "ten chain marker." |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2009 : 15:44:15 [Permalink]
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I don't know. The YouTube video (I can play those albeit slow loading) is all but useless. Going into the woods, it shows dog-like behavior, but on the tracks it looks pretty catty. And at one point, it even looks like a monkey! 
It is not all that large as figured by the spaces between the track ties, which are probably about 16 or so inches apart.
I'm still leaning toward dog, but nothing's certain on that mess.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2009 : 16:15:40 [Permalink]
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I've been doing a lot of searching on this, at it seems that, other than here, there has been no skeptical coverage of the "Monster of Helensburgh" at all. Nobody else has made a serious effort to analyze the video. The stories all simply repeat the original story uncritically.
I know that there are such people as photoanalysts, as I have known one such person in the past. He had been skilled at looking at aerial photographs of Nazi installations and using known references of standard objects on the ground to, for instance, estimate the caliber of unknown artillery. Unfortunately, I certainly am not one of those clever people. So for skeptical analysis, until an expert comes forth, one has the choice of either no analysis, or amateur analysis.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 08/01/2009 16:17:21 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2009 : 17:03:04 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
I've been doing a lot of searching on this, at it seems that, other than here, there has been no skeptical coverage of the "Monster of Helensburgh" at all. Nobody else has made a serious effort to analyze the video. The stories all simply repeat the original story uncritically.
I know that there are such people as photoanalysts, as I have known one such person in the past. He had been skilled at looking at aerial photographs of Nazi installations and using known references of standard objects on the ground to, for instance, estimate the caliber of unknown artillery. Unfortunately, I certainly am not one of those clever people. So for skeptical analysis, until an expert comes forth, one has the choice of either no analysis, or amateur analysis.
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I've been poking around a bit, too. Found nothing, even at Cryptomundo, which was a little suprising. I wouldn't call it exactly a skeptical site, but they're usually on top of this sort of thing.
Another stupid mystery o' the sea, eh"
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2009 : 23:41:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
I don't know. ... Going into the woods, it shows dog-like behavior, but on the tracks it looks pretty catty. And at one point, it even looks like a monkey! |
Well there you are. It's a monkey-cat-dog.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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UK's "Demon of Dartmoor" confirmed, ID'ed
