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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2007 : 18:12:36 [Permalink]
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In my mind, this is a simple issue. The title of the OP was: "Opinions regarding select UFO sightings". How can anyone have an opinion on a pig in a poke?
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 08/09/2007 18:13:13 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 08/09/2007 : 19:29:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
I am pleased and excited by this unexpected outpouring of emotion from what I expected to be cool, detached parsers of fact and opinion; not name callers and insulters. |
You expected Vulcans, but got humans. This, of course, says more about you than it does about us.| I am sure you people deal with this every day and I am surprised you didn't try to shut me out as a troll as soon as my retorts became too "rude" |
For a researcher, you're extraordinarily naive. It's as if you've been doing this Internet thing for all of a few months now.| Perhaps I can add enough numbers from larger forums to improve the probability. |
Go try your schtick at the JREF and the Straight Dope. Be sure to keep us informed of how the totals change (or don't). |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
 Posted - 08/09/2007 : 20:04:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
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The sociometric "score", as it stands right now, is as follows:
AGONIST
On Fire for Christ
Ricky
Marty
NEUTRAL
Ghost Skeptic
Furshur
Boron 10
ANTAGONIST
HalfMoon
H.Humbert
GeeMack
Valiant Dancer
Dude
Dave W.
Boron 10
Filthy
NEUTRAL AGONIST
Kil
Moakley
NEUTRAL ANTAGONIST
Dr. Mabuse
Cuneiformist
AGONISTS (with leaners) ------- 5 28%
NEUTRAL----------------------- 3 17%
ANTAGONISTS (with leaners)----10 55%
TOTAL PARTICIPANTS----------18 100%
Although the sample size is way too small to draw any conclusions, 55/28 might be an interesting start. Perhaps I can add enough numbers from larger forums to improve the probability. |
emphasis added -- B10
Wow, I am both neutral and antagonistic! I have only tried to explain to you why your actions were perceived as rude by many people here. I would claim my proper place alongside filthy as "indifferent." Though I was somewhat interested in helping you, I have chosen instead to explain how your words have been taken. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2007 : 20:28:42 [Permalink]
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I'm not sure how I made the "antagonistic" list either, since my beef has been thus far limited to Marty's smart-ass comments. I was really trying to give bngbuck the benefit of the doubt for a long while, merely asking for clarification, despite the fact that in his first salvo he decided to mock of all our screen names. But, since I've been given the title...
As it stands, I agree with Cune: bngbuck's question sucked. His research methods are horribly flawed. He wants our opinions on a specific subset of UFO cases but refuses to provide a single example of such a case because he also wants our opinion on the entire UFO phenomenon. He's all over the place. He acts antagonistic and then labels anyone who responds in kind antagonistic and "misanthropic" to boot. He also lacks basic manners and considers individual members here to be a part of a "fraternity" whose house I guess he decided to toilet paper.
Well, I find bngbuck to be an anti-social whack job completely ignorant of critical thought. I predict his book will be a credulous recounting of a wide variety of disparate phenomena grouped under a single questionable category, and that his chapter on skeptics will be such a distortion of the truth that no skeptic alive will find it remotely plausible.
In short, bngbuck's book will probably sell quite well in the circles he frequents.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2007 : 20:50:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W....
For a researcher, you're extraordinarily naive. It's as if you've been doing this Internet thing for all of a few months now. |
Yep, that might help explain his using all caps in an early posting and subsequently claiming to misunderstand the netiquette involved here...Originally posted by bngbuck...
My caps lock was on and I was writing rapidly and did not notice. Kil also objected to the all caps format. I am happy to disengage the caps lock even though I don't completely understan why it makes a post hard to read. |
Interestingly, beyond simply admitting he doesn't understand proper etiquette in Internet communications, it seems he felt some need to justify his error by lying about it. It's obvious that if one posted in a hurry without noticing the caps lock was engaged, there would be lower case characters where one might normally expect upper case. Not so here...Originally posted by bngbuck...
TO HALF MOONER.....
THANK YOU FOR YOUR RESPONSE TO MY POST. HOW IS IT POSSIBLE FOR HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE TOTALLY UNKNOWN TO ONE ANOTHER TO "COME UP WITH A COLLECTIVE INTERPRETATION". IS IT THAT THEY HAVE MEETINGS AFTER THE EVENT, MEET, AND AGREE TO AGREE? OR ESP, PERHAPS? OR, EVERYONE READING THE SAME ACCOUNTS OF THE PHENOMENON SIMULTANEOUSLY LEARNING WHAT IT WAS THAT THEY SAW? I RESPECT YOUR REPLY.
BNGBUCK |
That, and when folks asked him for examples of reports which might constitute his "select UFO sightings", his directing them to sift through tens of millions of articles was nothing short of irrational. What appears to be an unrealistic request by a complete jerk may have just been another display of naivety by a raw newbie.
It's pretty sad to see the old man making himself look so foolish. If he came in here with a little humility and honesty, instead of being all puffed up and prideful, he could have received so much good help and cooperation here. It's pathetic to see a man of his age who doesn't have the integrity to be honest or the balls to admit when he's wrong about something.
But no apologies expected, bngbuck. Several times you've mentioned that you wouldn't apologize for treating these good people like shit. And that's understandable. After all, you said it yourself, "assholes seldom apologize for anything."
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marty
BANNED
63 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2007 : 20:52:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
As it stands, I agree with Cune: bngbuck's question sucked. His research methods are horribly flawed. He wants our opinions on a specific subset of UFO cases but refuses to provide a single example of such a case because he also wants our opinion on the entire UFO phenomenon. He's all over the place. He acts antagonistic and then labels anyone who responds in kind antagonistic and "misanthropic" to boot. He also lacks basic manners and considers individual members here to be a part of a "fraternity" whose house I guess he decided to toilet paper. |
You still do not get it!
| Well, I find bngbuck to be an anti-social whack job completely ignorant of critical thought. I predict his book will be a credulous recounting of a wide variety of disparate phenomena grouped under a single questionable category, and that his chapter on skeptics will be such a distortion of the truth that no skeptic alive will find it remotely plausible. |
Do insults quell the fire of frustration in your belly from lack of understanding?
In short, bngbuck's book will probably sell quite well in the circles he frequents.
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Did you not read what "circles" he claimed?
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marty
BANNED
63 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2007 : 21:00:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by GeeMack
It's pretty sad to see the old man making himself look so foolish. If he came in here with a little humility and honesty, instead of being all puffed up and prideful, he could have received so much good help and cooperation here. It's pathetic to see a man of his age who doesn't have the integrity to be honest or the balls to admit when he's wrong about something.
But no apologies expected, bngbuck. Several times you've mentioned that you wouldn't apologize for treating these good people like shit. And that's understandable. After all, you said it yourself, "assholes seldom apologize for anything."
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Insults with condescension!
It might have worked if you understood what was going on. Now it just makes you look petty.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2007 : 22:46:19 [Permalink]
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So, how long should I let this silliness go on I wonder?
Hey bngbuck, I would like to request that my name be moved from the “NEUTRAL AGONIST” list to the “ANTAGONIST” list. It just isn't right for an Evil Skeptic to not be included as being at least somewhat antagonistic, and I must keep up appearances, if you know what I mean.
Marty:
Insults with condescension!
It might have worked if you understood what was going on. Now it just makes you look petty. |
But… But… Oh well, never mind.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2007 : 23:08:39 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marty
It might have worked if you understood what was going on. |
What's going on is patently obvious. Because bngbuck has misrepresented himself at least once, it's impossible to take anything he might say at face value. Is he a 79-year-old working on a book, or a 17-year-old with a high-school level psychology project? Can't say. Does it matter? If what we've seen here is a representative example of his skills, then no. Couple that with his stated rejection of social conventions (and even the ethic of reciprocity), and it's plain that bngbuck has set himself up as a target, regardless his original motivation or intent. That people are taking him up on his implied offer shouldn't be surprising, marty.
The very idea that this has all been some sort of psychology research actually feeds into the hypothesis that bngbuck is both an Internet newbie and a science newbie. The idea that this sort of method would generate significant and meaningful results is ludicrous, and indicates a lack of foresight and rigor. If he writes this up as "I set myself up as a rude, arrogant prig and got abused for it," then it's an obvious result and who cares? If he reports otherwise, then he'll discredit himself if he references this thread, or he'll discredit himself by hiding his data, and either way, who cares?
And as I said, if what we've seen here is representative, nobody will care, anyway. Look at his crappy data collection. His categories have no referent. I've only been antagonistic towards rudeness, smarminess and arrogance in this thread (both his and yours, marty), so either that's what bngbuck is testing (and thus his entire OP is false) or he has miscategorized me. The idea that this is anything more than a stereotypical newbie trick is unsupported by evidence.
You ever going to answer my questions, marty? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2007 : 04:41:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
For a researcher, you're extraordinarily naive. It's as if you've been doing this Internet thing for all of a few months now |
This bothered me early on. When asked for references it seems that if bngbuck had been at this any length of time then surely he would have had a folder of favorites to pick from. Call me cynical, but I'm not holding my breath in anticipation of a book by bngbuck being published within my lifetime. Even to the internet.
edited: be -> me |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
| Edited by - moakley on 08/10/2007 04:46:54 |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2007 : 05:29:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marty
You still do not get it! |
Please help me, then, marty, since I don't seem to fully understand. What exactly does it mean to want an opinion on a question per se? Did he want us to help him out with word choice and phraseology?
In this post, bngbuck says that he "wanted [our] opinion on the question, NOT on the specific instances of observations of UFOs." So was he asking if I thought it was a good question? Or not?
If not, then we're left with a curious state of affairs, as the only thing I can think of is that he wanted to know what we (as professional skeptics?) thought about:| the UFO phenomenon ... [that is made up of] the small but significant number of highly documented sightings of UFO aerial phenomena reported by large groups of ordinary people, groups of professional military or police, sightings verified by multiple radar trackings, groups of military pilots or astronauts; and those cases thoroughly examined by Condon et al, Project Blue Book, and other serious investigations, and NOT rejected as hoax or hallucinatory. |
That is, he was actually asking us about this very specific subset of the UFO phenomenon. Is this right? Was he asking us about this? I'm very confused.
[ETA: I am of the opinion that while multiple exclamation points and question marks can serve to emphasize a point (compare "What?" to "What???"), that multiple smilies just look sort of obnoxious. Or, in the case of multiple , just plain creepy.] |
| Edited by - Cuneiformist on 08/10/2007 05:31:18 |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2007 : 06:40:05 [Permalink]
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| Ill say it, this thread and its authors dubious behaviour is an insult, almost as insulting and childish as Marty's responses. Let us know when you want an actual conversation. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2007 : 07:11:02 [Permalink]
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NEUTRAL
Ghost Skeptic
Furshur
Boron 10 |
bngbuck, please move my name to ANTAGONIST, you worthless butt sniff.
Thanks. |
If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2007 : 07:44:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
I have a third wager going for 150 -- we shall see how prescient I am..... |
Only one more post until we find out!
I'm all a-twitter with anticipation! |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2007 : 07:52:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by filthy
I have a third wager going for 150 -- we shall see how prescient I am..... |
Only one more post until we find out!
I'm all a-twitter with anticipation!
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A single post is not enough; it ain't gonna happen. Oh well, two outa three ain't bad, so I'll just take the post for myself....
The third bet was that one of y'all mods would write in red by 150. A long shot, as neither bngbuck nor marty are very obnoxious; just frustrating.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 08/10/2007 08:08:05 |
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Opinions regarding select UFO sightings
Topic Locked
