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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
 Posted - 08/22/2007 : 10:32:41
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From Science Avenger:
"Florida State Rep. Bob Allen, longtime anti-gay crusader who was recently arrested for soliciting an undercover cop posing as a gay prostitute, has a novel excuse: all the blacks in the park made me do it."
Only problem, what's his source?
This seems to be the original source.
I had to hunt and search to find the actual news story. More reports from actual news sources can be found by googling "Bob Allen" and "Titusville"
When one does that, and picks out the first cached link, which is a story from the OrlandoSentinal.com's August 16, 2007 edition, one finds this:
| "This was a pretty stocky black guy, and there was nothing but other black guys around in the park," Allen, who is white, told police in a taped statement after his arrest. Allen said he feared he "was about to be a statistic" and would have said anything just to get away. |
At least we know that it seems to be true, but I wish that they'd have a link to at least the cached copy in their blogs/news items about it.
Makes me do more work, the bastards!
Anyway, the Science Avenger's last comment bears some examination:
The apparent correlation between being rabidly anti-gay in public and secretly gay in private gets another data point. How many do we need before we accept that this obsessive behavior is a form of self-hatred, and stop pretending these people have any objectivity at all? Personally, I think it is high time that every anti-gay crusader get asked whether he is gay in his private life, and can he prove it? It would be justice, and great entertainment as well.
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Maybe we should start collecting more of these reports ourselves. How many data points do you think we'd need before we could guess at such a theory?
(Yep, I'm going to make you think for a change.)
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
Edited by - the_ignored on 08/22/2007 10:40:50
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2007 : 13:10:53 [Permalink]
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Here's the arrest report (PDF file). Seems pretty odd for that to have been due to intimidation.
But the strangest thing is that Allen's getting slammed for saying "stocky black guy," as somehow racist.
But to answer your question, Ig, I think a lot more data points are required. Out of the thousands of anti-gay crusaders in the U.S., how many have turned out to be gay to some extent? In the last ten years, I think I can recall four or five. Hardly enough to assume the other 99-point-something-percent are likewise self-loathing and closeted. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
 Posted - 08/22/2007 : 13:45:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
But the strangest thing is that Allen's getting slammed for saying "stocky black guy," as somehow racist. |
Actually, Dave, I think it was Allen's statement that he felt he was "about to be a statistic" based on no other threat except that he was surrounded by black men that's considered to be an indication of his racism, as if black = violent criminal.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2007 : 14:32:26 [Permalink]
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| You may be right, H. I can't find anything that specifically says which part(s) of his comment(s) anyone found offensive, all I see are people reporting the whole thing, and saying he apologized to the local NAACP. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2007 : 17:06:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ricky
But to answer your question, Ig, I think a lot more data points are required. Out of the thousands of anti-gay crusaders in the U.S., how many have turned out to be gay to some extent? In the last ten years, I think I can recall four or five. Hardly enough to assume the other 99-point-something-percent are likewise self-loathing and closeted. |
It's also important to note that when a anti-gay crusader turns out to be gay, you are most likely going to hear about it; it's a very news worthy event. So of all the ones you have heard of, there probably aren't going to be a lot, if any, that you haven't heard of.
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Yep, the devil is in the statistics. Nice to see that skeptical objectivity here isn't over-riden by people's just wanting to bash a political side.
As pointed out on another message board, in the second post:
That depends on what case you're trying to make - and most of them are logically flawed...
1. Any rabid opponent of something is a secret proponent.
That's a generalization that simply doesn't fly. Am I a secret Christian or Scientologist just because I strongly oppose their tenents? A single data point kills this claim.
2. The more strongly someone criticizes something in public, the more likely they are to engage in it, in private.
Same problem...but you can at least come up with a correlation - and that's the key. We're talking about correlation here, not causation. As long as it's possible for someone to seriously oppose something without being a secret adherent...the correlation carries little weight.
That doesn't mean we can't have fun with it. I've seen folks who think that Fred Phelps is secretly gay, for this precise reasoning. Maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong - but it's an amusing (yet sad) hypothesis.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
| Edited by - the_ignored on 08/22/2007 17:24:36 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2007 : 21:32:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
But to answer your question, Ig, I think a lot more data points are required. Out of the thousands of anti-gay crusaders in the U.S., how many have turned out to be gay to some extent? In the last ten years, I think I can recall four or five. Hardly enough to assume the other 99-point-something-percent are likewise self-loathing and closeted.
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What if we limit ourselves to anti-gay movement leaders?
| You may be right, H. I can't find anything that specifically says which part(s) of his comment(s) anyone found offensive... |
Well, that's the part that I found offensive. Perhaps there are other parts of his comments which others could find offensive.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2007 : 08:23:08 [Permalink]
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Kinsey studied and exposed the real variation in human sexuality and argued that most people are not totally heterosexual or totally homosexual, even though that myth is still strong in both gay and straight social circles (my aunt once freaked out on my 'cause I was dating a bisexual guy, and she was convinced that meant he was really gay and just hadn't accepted it yet. Ten years later - he's still bi.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Kinsey | Kinsey is generally regarded as the father of sexology, the systematic, scientific study of human sexuality. He initially became interested in the different forms of sexual practices around 1933, after discussing the topic extensively with a colleague, Robert Kroc. It is likely that Kinsey's study of the variation of mating practices among gall wasps led him to wonder how widely varied sexual practices among humans were. During this work, he developed a scale measuring sexual orientation now known as the Kinsey Scale which ranks from 0 to 6, where 0 is exclusively heterosexual and 6 is exclusively homosexual. |
I question whether anti-gay activists tend to be more gay than people who support gay rights or are indifferent. I tend to think it has more to do with one's upbringing, social environment, and religious and political leanings. But if Kinsey was right, and the true sexuality of anti-gay activists is similar to everyone else, a huge portion of them at least have some degree of bisexual orientation. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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leoofno
Skeptic Friend
USA
346 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2007 : 04:30:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
...
But to answer your question, Ig, I think a lot more data points are required. Out of the thousands of anti-gay crusaders in the U.S., how many have turned out to be gay to some extent? In the last ten years, I think I can recall four or five. Hardly enough to assume the other 99-point-something-percent are likewise self-loathing and closeted.
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One more data point. (Or was Sen. Larry Craig already recorded?):
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/08/27/craig.arrest/index.html
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"If you're not terrified, you're not paying attention." Eric Alterman
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2007 : 05:05:05 [Permalink]
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Yup, another one. They sure are mounting up quickly.
He has supported a federal constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage, telling his colleagues that it was "important for us to stand up now and protect traditional marriage, which is under attack by a few unelected judges and litigious activists."
. . .
Craig denied any inappropriate conduct in a prepared statement, and said he now regrets his guilty plea.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 08/28/2007 05:08:06 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2007 : 21:07:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Here's the arrest report (PDF file). Seems pretty odd for that to have been due to intimidation.
But the strangest thing is that Allen's getting slammed for saying "stocky black guy," as somehow racist.
But to answer your question, Ig, I think a lot more data points are required. Out of the thousands of anti-gay crusaders in the U.S., how many have turned out to be gay to some extent? In the last ten years, I think I can recall four or five. Hardly enough to assume the other 99-point-something-percent are likewise self-loathing and closeted.
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I've heard of three in the last two years.
Ted Haggard - (ousted 11/4/2006) 8/30/2007 http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5685442,00.html
Rev. Lonnie W. Latham - 1/3/2006 arrested soliciting homosexual sex OK City.
Christopher Beard - 12/18/2006, ousted for "immoral conduct". Since he was an underling of Ted Haggard and the New Life Church ousted Haggard using the exact same verbiage.
And let's not forget our latest little friend of gays, The Hon Craig from Idaho busted for soliciting homosexual sex in a bathroom.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
| Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 08/30/2007 21:09:48 |
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Another Anti-Gay Crusader turns out to be gay
