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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2007 : 13:52:08 [Permalink]
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Dave, here is "The Braillettes" album cover on Wikipedia.
And here is the subsequent disclaimer:
This image is of a cover of an audio recording, and the copyright for it is most likely owned by either the publisher of the album or the artist(s) which produced the recording or cover artwork in question. It is believed that the use of low-resolution images of such covers
* solely to illustrate the audio recording in question,
* on the English-language Wikipedia, hosted on servers in the United States by the non-profit Wikimedia Foundation,
qualifies as fair use under United States copyright law. |
So, if Wikipedia is kosher, then SFN should be safe under the same fair use rules.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 09/09/2007 13:54:16 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 09/09/2007 : 13:56:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
So, if Wikipedia is kosher, then SFN should be safe under the same fair use rules.
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Wiki follows Jewish law?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 09/09/2007 : 14:55:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Dave, here is "The Braillettes" album cover on Wikipedia.
And here is the subsequent disclaimer:
This image is of a cover of an audio recording, and the copyright for it is most likely owned by either the publisher of the album or the artist(s) which produced the recording or cover artwork in question. It is believed that the use of low-resolution images of such covers
* solely to illustrate the audio recording in question,
* on the English-language Wikipedia, hosted on servers in the United States by the non-profit Wikimedia Foundation,
qualifies as fair use under United States copyright law. |
So, if Wikipedia is kosher, then SFN should be safe under the same fair use rules. |
I'm pretty sure that Wikipedia is wrong, in more than one way.
First is that the Copyright Act provides that......the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright.
- Wikipedia The broad categories provided in the act for what constitutes a "fair use" do not include "illustration." And I'd wager that whether or not Wikipedia's use is "scholarship" would require a full lawsuit to decide.
(Ironic, ain't it, that I'm using Wikipedia to debunk Wikipedia?)
Second, anyone who claims "this qualifies as fair use" is, in my experience, almost always wrong. The statement itself is a warning sign that copyright is being violated. Why? Because nowhere in any copyright act does it give any concrete guidelines as to what would be a violation and what wouldn't. The authors purposefully leave it up to judges to decide what is or isn't fair use. Saying "a judge would probably find this to be fair use" is one thing. Saying "it is fair use" is quite another. Neither, of course, provides any immunity from a lawsuit.
Third, where images are hosted and who they're hosted by will only matter once a lawsuit has been filed. Theft is theft, regardless of the non-profit status of the thief. There aren't any exemptions for Robin Hood, nor for shoestring operations like the SFN. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2007 : 15:16:30 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
The broad categories provided in the act for what constitutes a "fair use" do not include "illustration." |
I believe that's because "illustration" would be a category, like text, photo, etc. The "use by reproduction" language would seem to cover, well, whatever it is you intend to reproduce.
| And I'd wager that whether or not Wikipedia's use is "scholarship" would require a full lawsuit to decide. |
Or whether an SFN thread titled "Awful Album Covers" constitutes "criticism."  (I'd argue yes, but I completely understand why you need to err on the side of extreme caution.)
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2007 : 15:24:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by Dave W.
The broad categories provided in the act for what constitutes a "fair use" do not include "illustration." |
I believe that's because "illustration" would be a category, like text, photo, etc. The "use by reproduction" language would seem to cover, well, whatever it is you intend to reproduce.
| And I'd wager that whether or not Wikipedia's use is "scholarship" would require a full lawsuit to decide. |
Or whether an SFN thread titled "Awful Album Covers" constitutes "criticism." (I'd argue yes, but I completely understand why you need to err on the side of extreme caution.)
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Boy, I hope you are not lawyer.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2007 : 15:37:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by Dave W.
The broad categories provided in the act for what constitutes a "fair use" do not include "illustration." |
I believe that's because "illustration" would be a category, like text, photo, etc. |
Nonono. They mean "this is used for the purpose of illustration." In other words, they're only showing the album cover so you can see what it looks like. Verb "illustrate," not noun.| The "use by reproduction" language would seem to cover, well, whatever it is you intend to reproduce. |
Right, they have - without permission - reproduced the album cover, which is artwork covered by copyright aside from the audio on the LP record itself.| And I'd wager that whether or not Wikipedia's use is "scholarship" would require a full lawsuit to decide. |
Or whether an SFN thread titled "Awful Album Covers" constitutes "criticism." (I'd argue yes, but I completely understand why you need to err on the side of extreme caution.) |
Just to be clear on that point, we need to err on the side of caution because we can't afford lawyers.
Many years ago, there was a thread over on Internet Infidels where people were Photoshopping cartoons from, I think, Answers in Genesis for the obvious satire available. One of our SFN members copied one of the good ones over here, and so we got a letter from AiG's lawyers similar to the letter that Infidels got. We took down the cartoon, because we were looking at some ten or twenty thousand to just begin fighting the lawsuit on principle (which I would have loved to do, we probably could have won it).
(By the way, [sfn] will be less work for you than [blue][b]SFN[/b][/blue]. You can also do [sfnfull] for the complete name, "Skeptic Friends Network.") |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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The Rat
SFN Regular
Canada
1370 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2007 : 16:03:42 [Permalink]
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| I wouldn't worry too much about copyright Dave, there are a bunch of 'Awful Album Covers!' type sites on the web that have those pics up, and they have been there for years without being shut down. |
Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.
You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II
Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2007 : 16:12:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by The Rat
I wouldn't worry too much about copyright Dave, there are a bunch of 'Awful Album Covers!' type sites on the web that have those pics up, and they have been there for years without being shut down. |
Oh, I understand that. If I were actually worried, I would have done something about it right after the thread was posted. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 11:38:31 [Permalink]
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Are these real album covers? Come on! Some of those are so over the top the skeptic in me is starting to wonder.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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maledoro
Skeptic Friend
66 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 12:05:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by furshur
Are these real album covers? Come on! Some of those are so over the top the skeptic in me is starting to wonder.
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They're real, alright. I've held some of them in my hands.
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"Nothing frightens me more than religion at my door."
-John Cale |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 09:38:57 [Permalink]
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| They're real, alright. I've held some of them in my hands. |
Jeez, I hope you washed your hands after that.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Awful Album Covers
