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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 09/17/2007 : 21:46:09
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Brave New World!
Do not ask John Kerry is he was a member of Skull & Bones or you will be arrested and Tazered!
College forum at that!
One must reread Brave new world to understand the significance of this encounter.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 21:52:23 [Permalink]
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First, Kerry didn't taser or arrest anyone. Your subject title is a lie. Once again.
Well, J, it's clear that the disruptive young man was not tasered until long after he began struggling against the police. Would you have preferred he be beaten with a baton, beaten with fists, or shot?
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 09/17/2007 21:55:07 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 09/17/2007 : 22:03:03 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
First, Kerry didn't taser or arrest anyone. Your subject title is a lie. Once again.
Well, J, it's clear that the disruptive young man was not tasered until long after he began struggling against the police. Would you have preferred he be beaten with a baton, beaten with fists, or shot?
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Typical.
Zero outrage from a defender of tyranny.
Ad hom the reporter.
College student asking unwelcome questions-----your response
---lier!
---tazer!
---arrest!
Welcome to the welcomed tyranny.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 09/17/2007 : 23:42:33 [Permalink]
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CheY0jYXJjY
From the beginning.
About twenty seconds into the question the police are telling him to stop.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 23:47:21 [Permalink]
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqAVvlyVbag
Here you can see the police waiting to stop him from asking a question.
Why were the police prepared to "attack"?
Tyranny is tough with all the camera phones.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 04:11:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by HalfMooner
First, Kerry didn't taser or arrest anyone. Your subject title is a lie. Once again.
Well, J, it's clear that the disruptive young man was not tasered until long after he began struggling against the police. Would you have preferred he be beaten with a baton, beaten with fists, or shot?
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Typical.
Zero outrage from a defender of tyranny.
Ad hom the reporter.
College student asking unwelcome questions-----your response
---lier!
---tazer!
---arrest!
Welcome to the welcomed tyranny.
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I'm not sure about the lier part, but I don't believe that the tazer was necessary. With 6 cops they would have eventually got the other cuff on. Arrest, seems the young man had a pretty good idea where he was going with his questions. He was getting more cranked up as he went. Arrest was a possibility. Resisting made it a certainty. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 04:36:28 [Permalink]
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Again, Jerome, you lied in headlining this thread as Kerry having tasered and arrested someone. There's no nicer way of putting it. I note you still won't correct the lie, explain it, nor even admit it, though it's there for all to see.
I watched the two additional videos. I saw the young man first make a statement, ask at least three questions, then refuse to leave the mic. He would not stop speaking loudly long enough for Kerry to reply.
When the university police then tried to escort the guy away, he began screaming like a spoiled child and violently resisted them. I saw no brutality, no sign anyone was beating on him, which could have been justified by his thrashing about and struggling.
Rather than Kerry tasering and arresting the man (Kerry's not a cop, Jerome), by sharp contrast to your lie, Kerry can be heard from the podium saying in a clear, calm voice as the police grabbed the man's arms, "That's all right, let me answer his question."
There are laws that require citizens to comply with lawful orders of police officers. If the young man wanted to make a point, he did so, but he should understand, as all nonviolent demonstrators do, that being arrested is the price one must pay for violating the law, or lawful police orders.
You are seriously ignorant of legitimate police powers, Jerome. Yes, police often abuse their powers, and I've seen it myself. This wasn't such a case.
That I happen to agree with much if not all of the young man's words is separate from the fact that he seems to have been treated appropriately, or at least legally, given his clearly disruptive behavior. The use of the taser seemed justified by his screaming and violent resistance to being escorted out of the hall. (His repeatedly yelling "help!" for instance, could have easily turned a tense situation into one where members of the audience tried to free him from the police, a very serious felony in most, if not all, states, and a deadly serious situation from the police viewpoint. In California, this comes under a "lynching" law, oddly enough.)
Jerome, you have again demonstrated a remarkable ability to see things invisible to others. I don't share that "skill."
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 09/18/2007 04:41:47 |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 07:03:50 [Permalink]
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| They had enough officers to control him. The lot of them should have mobbed the cops. |
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perrodetokio
Skeptic Friend
275 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 07:41:11 [Permalink]
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found here:
http://pod01.prospero.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=kr-miamitm&tid=9029
Posted by: charles
9/17/2007 8:49 PM
9029.1 Report as Violation
Avg 3.00, 2 votes
I was at the John Kerry Town Hall Forum today to witness this event. I was actually waiting in line on the other-side of the aisle to ask the Senator a question (I was on the left side by the microphone, while Meyer was on the right side by another microphone). Now, knowing that videos are not going to completely paint the entire picture. Please consider these facts:
Meyer was NOT being chased by the police just because of the questions he was asking. Before this video started recording, Senator Kerry was answering a student's question about Iraq. All of sudden, Meyer starts running toward the microphone with cops tailing him. Now, one of the thoughts running through my mind was the possiblity that he may have a gun or a bomb in his possession. Yes, an extreme case, but how many times have we heard of attempted assassinations on political case? The university police had to treat it as an extreme case. Meyer grabbed the microphone and began shouting things like "I've been waiting here for an hour and you won't answer my question! And I beleive you should answer everyone's questions here!" Immediately the police grabbed Meyer, found no weapons and tried to lead him outside. However, Senator Kerry respectfully told the police that he would listen to Meyer's question and asked him to stay. So, Kerry finished his answer to the previous student who had been interrupted by Meyer's outburst. Then he pointed to Meyer and thats where our video begins.
Whether he should have been tapered or not is up for question. He did try to resist arrest multiple times. He was also warned that he could be tapered as well. If Meyer had just left the building, none of this would happen. I don't understand why Meyer wanted to desperately ask Kerry questions that weren't really that important. After the show ended, which was right after this incident, Senator Kerry came off the stage to shake hands and sign autographs. At that time, I went up to him, shook his hand, asked him my question which he answered, and also received an autograph.
I don't understand why some people have to make such a scene to just get their questions answered. Again, remember he rush up to the microphone to shout at Kerry and interrupt him. The police HAD to treat as an extreme situation in that case. Whether he should have been tapered or not when he was already subdued can be debatable. |
Although I think tasing him was a bit extreme, it SEEMS that the video does not paint a full picture of things. |
"Yes I have a belief in a creator/God but do not know that he exists." Bill Scott
"They are still mosquitoes! They did not turn into whales or lizards or anything else. They are still mosquitoes!..." Bill Scott
"We should have millions of missing links or transition fossils showing a fish turning into a philosopher..." Bill Scott |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 08:16:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by perrodetokio
...it SEEMS that the video does not paint a full picture of things. |
It is obvious that not all the facts are in evidence here (in the description of one of the videos that Jerome himself linked to, the writer says that Meyer came into the hall with "4 or 5 cops in tow"), yet Jerome has leapt to the conclusion that the guy was arrested and tasered because asked Kerry a question about Skull & Bones.
And then Jerome gets his own tyrannic streak going by claiming that he's been the victim of an ad hominem, and then further claiming that HalfMooner's own response to a student asking an unwanted question would be arrest and tasering.
Jerome, the appropriate response to tyranny does not involve making shit up. Doing so does little but help to fix the impression I have of you as an extremist political reactionary who cannot be trusted to accurately report on anything.
That said, since it appears to me that the guy was handcuffed, face-down and had cops kneeling on him when they tasered him, so that part of it seems like a clear-cut case of police abuse. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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perrodetokio
Skeptic Friend
275 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 10:22:10 [Permalink]
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These types of headlines remind me of one I read once: "Arrested for robbing 1 peso (30 cents of dollar)". Then, when you read the whole newspaper article, you find out that the guy, armed with a 38 caliber, mugged some dude on the street who at the moment only had the clothes he was wearing and one peso he was going to buy cigarrettes with.
Yeah, sure. The thief only stole a peso, however, he had a firearm, threatened to shoot his victim with it if he didnīt hand him all his money. And should the victim have had more money or other valuables, it wouldnīt have been just a peso.
The point is/was that itīs an armed robbery despite the amount that you steal.
What does this have to do with the current post? Well, the guy wasnīt ARRESTED and TASED just because he asked Kerry a question and it even wasnīt Kerry who tased and arrested him, whilst the robber wasnīt arrested JUST because he stole one peso.
In Argentina we call those types of headlines "Yellow Press" , in reference to the cheap paper sensationalist newspapers and magazines used to print their issues on.
It seems that today itīs not just a few crappy newspapers that use that tactic to create controversy and sell.
(yes, I know. I copied and pasted my one reply but I said I would, so... there!).
Cheers
perro de tokio
edited to add: I still think that tasing the guy was out of order, though. |
"Yes I have a belief in a creator/God but do not know that he exists." Bill Scott
"They are still mosquitoes! They did not turn into whales or lizards or anything else. They are still mosquitoes!..." Bill Scott
"We should have millions of missing links or transition fossils showing a fish turning into a philosopher..." Bill Scott |
| Edited by - perrodetokio on 09/18/2007 10:23:58 |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 16:06:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
That said, since it appears to me that the guy was handcuffed, face-down and had cops kneeling on him when they tasered him, so that part of it seems like a clear-cut case of police abuse. |
And now, it looks like the cops responsible have been suspended with an investigation to follow.
Where's the grand conspiracy? Oh, right... |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 17:22:54 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by perrodetokio
In Argentina we call those types of headlines "Yellow Press" , in reference to the cheap paper sensationalist newspapers and magazines used to print their issues on. |
Yes, we know yellow journalism, too. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Orwellingly Yurz
SFN Regular
USA
529 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 18:23:10 [Permalink]
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YO: I guess most of you have heard by now or read (and comes as no surprise): Greg Jarrett of Fox Noise Channel say the officers who tased this annoying student in Florida today should be commended. Fox is Fascist, no doubt.
What I found offensive, as well, was that some students attending were amused by the incident.
I think the student was obnoxious, but not a threat to the situation. So why did the campus police try to make him stop talking.
A female student on CNN who was shooting video right next to the tussle said that the guy and she were intimidated by the cops even before the tased student ever got the microphone. Interesting. I'm sure CNN will be running that again. I hope so.
Some more observations: The student might have been trying to get attention for Greg Palast's book he held in his hand while being subdued. Good, I say, even if it might have been a planned attempt. The student may have been pissed at Kerry for not addressing the voting irregularities referred to in the book, I don't know. I do know I was pissed at Kerry for that reason, still am, and voted for him and think, even today, he would be a much better president than the jerk we've got, but just about anybody in the USA would be.
I do say, the student was a little too edgy, and needs to work on his diplomacy skills (like someone else I can think of), but he does have the right to ask a US Senator an inconvenient question in a public forum, especically on a campus that supposedly sanctions academic freedom in a nation which claims to be a liberal democracy. Hello!
Senator Kerry should get some good mileage our of this unfortunate display of campus overreaction.
What is heartening, though, is that some U. of Florida students are already demonstrating in support of the tased student.
"Tased," one of the newer verbs in George Bush's Armed Madhouse.
Mr. Bush doesn't know that our nation will be better equipped to fend off the insanity of religious zealots if he were only capable of bringing us together. But capability is not his long suit, I fear.
Orwellingly Yurz.
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"The modern conservative...is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy. That is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
--John Kenneth Galbraith
If dogs run free
Then what must be,
Must be...
And that is all
--Bob Dylan
The neo-cons have gotten welfare for themselves down to a fine art.
--me
"The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights."
--J. Paul Getty
"The great thing about Art isn't what it give us, but what we become through it."
--Oscar Wilde
"We have Art in order not to die of life."
--Albert Camus
"I cling like a miser to the freedom I lose when surrounded by an abundance of things."
--Albert Camus
"Experience is the name so many people give to their mistakes."
--Oscar Wilde |
| Edited by - Orwellingly Yurz on 09/18/2007 18:30:21 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 18:25:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
There are laws that require citizens to comply with lawful orders of police officers. If the young man wanted to make a point, he did so, but he should understand, as all nonviolent demonstrators do, that being arrested is the price one must pay for violating the law, or lawful police orders.
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It is a lawful order from a police officer to command a citizen to stop speaking in a public forum to a public servant?
You are a supporter of tyranny!
Have you ever read the constitution? If so, you need to reread it. I would recommend a dictionary by your side.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Tazer and Arrested by Kerry!
