|
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 09/25/2007 : 07:32:27
|
A Western Civilization instructor at Southwestern Community Community College in Red Oak, Iowa, was fired for saying the story of Adam and Eve should not be taken literally. A community college instructor in Red Oak claims he was fired after he told his students that the biblical story of Adam and Eve should not be literally interpreted.
Steve Bitterman, 60, said officials at Southwestern Community College sided with a handful of students who threatened legal action over his remarks in a western civilization class Tuesday. He said he was fired Thursday.
"I'm just a little bit shocked myself that a college in good standing would back up students who insist that people who have been through college and have a master's degree, a couple actually, have to teach that there were such things as talking snakes or lose their job," Bitterman said. |
|
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
|
|
pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2007 : 07:49:04 [Permalink]
|
| Bitterman said he called the story of Adam and Eve a "fairy tale" in a conversation with a student after the class and was told the students had threatened to see an attorney. He declined to identify any of the students in the class. |
What the hell would a student sue for?
Man, these fundys sure have a thin skin and little faith. If anything, the students who were so "offended" should have stood up for their belief and present a cogent argument as to why talking snakes and all powerful fruit actually existed. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
|
 |
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2007 : 10:43:18 [Permalink]
|
Another article, from Inside Higher Ed: | On Thursday, he said, Linda Wild, a vice president, called him, told him that several of the students and the parents had threatened an unspecified lawsuit, and fired him. Bitterman said Wild said he would be paid for the sessions he had taught and no more. “She said that the parents said that I was there to teach history and not religion and that she agreed,” Bitterman said. |
[MY emphasis.] The problem is, she and the students and parents wanted Bitterman to tech their religious myth as history. All Bitterman did was deny the myth was history. These fundy jerks want their particular religion forced down the throats of all students in a tax supported public institution, as history. And they scream that any secular presentation is "religion" itself. Lying bastards!
|
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 09/25/2007 10:44:42 |
|
|
|
Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2007 : 11:36:22 [Permalink]
|
I remember a college professor, years ago mentioning in class the Adam and Eve story as an analogy with aspects derived from Greek myths. (Loss of innocence via the "tree" of knowledge.) i.e. We sometimes are willing to pay a price for gaining knowledge, symbolized by the apple of knowledge offered by good old "free will" Satan, the price being: loss of innocence - (innocence symbolic of paradise.)
This was just a passing comment our professor made while discussing analogies in general. No one was offended nor batted an eye. It was in fact, an interesting insight to our young minds.
That Southwestern Community College in Red Oak, Iowa must be totally screwed.
. |
Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
|
|
|
Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2007 : 13:49:04 [Permalink]
|
| Can't American Evangelicals and otherwise religiously insane decide on one state in USA, take it over and leave the rest of the US population in peace? They can then leave the Union and become their own backward theocracy, and USA can reclaim it's place as a leading nation of the world. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 09/25/2007 13:49:45 |
|
|
|
pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2007 : 14:04:57 [Permalink]
|
| I blame whoever wrote in the Bible that the religion should be spread to the Gentiles. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
|
|
|
|
perrodetokio
Skeptic Friend
275 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2007 : 14:09:17 [Permalink]
|
| You never hear of people in the US getting fired for saying that stories about Krishna are not to be taken literally! |
"Yes I have a belief in a creator/God but do not know that he exists." Bill Scott
"They are still mosquitoes! They did not turn into whales or lizards or anything else. They are still mosquitoes!..." Bill Scott
"We should have millions of missing links or transition fossils showing a fish turning into a philosopher..." Bill Scott |
|
|
|
JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2007 : 17:26:05 [Permalink]
|
First off, I absolutely do not think the teacher should be fired or punished in any way. There should be exposer to ideas which make others uncomfortable in the college setting.
Having said that.
I have been maligned for misrepresenting my thread titles recently. I would like to point out this is a fact for this thread.
| Instructor wouldn't teach Adam & Eve, is fired |
| Bitterman's Tuesday course was telecast to students in Osceola over the Iowa Communications Network. A few students in the Osceola classroom, he said, thought the lesson was "denigrating their religion." |
Again, I have no problem with the professor denigrating anyones religion; it is that the title belies the facts presented in the article.
Fair is fair.
|
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
|
|
|
moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2007 : 17:55:07 [Permalink]
|
The first comment below the article is clearly a voice of reason.
Unfortunately, the literalists are the most vocal and reactionary. Their shouting down of those who disagree with them closes off any real discussion and understanding of these ancient texts, and atrophies the Christian faith.
|
|
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
|
|
|
H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2007 : 17:58:05 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
First off, I absolutely do not think the teacher should be fired or punished in any way. There should be exposer to ideas which make others uncomfortable in the college setting.
Having said that.
I have been maligned for misrepresenting my thread titles recently. I would like to point out this is a fact for this thread.
| Instructor wouldn't teach Adam & Eve, is fired |
| Bitterman's Tuesday course was telecast to students in Osceola over the Iowa Communications Network. A few students in the Osceola classroom, he said, thought the lesson was "denigrating their religion." |
Again, I have no problem with the professor denigrating anyones religion; it is that the title belies the facts presented in the article.
Fair is fair. |
No, Jerome, this thread title is perfectly accurate. How did the teacher "denigrate" the students' religion? By not teaching that Adam and Eve were historical personages. So it's the same thing.
This is unlike your thread titles, where what you claim in the headline is a total misrepresentation of whatever actually occurred.
|
"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 09/25/2007 17:58:52 |
|
|
|
JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2007 : 18:04:50 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by H. Humbert
No, Jerome, this thread title is perfectly accurate. How did the teacher "denigrate" the students' religion? By not teaching that Adam and Eve were historical personages. So it's the same thing.
This is unlike your thread titles, where what you claim in the headline is a total misrepresentation of whatever actually occurred.
|
You did not read the article based on your response.
You are a mockery every time you respond to me.
Why do you?
|
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
|
|
|
H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2007 : 18:17:27 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
You did not read the article based on your response. |
Of course I did. But unlike you, I understood it. The teacher refused to teach the story of Genesis as historic fact, and instead taught it as a myth or fairy tale, exactly as any educated professor should. He also gave no single religion preference in his classroom, as is in keeping with the US Constitution. Only creationists could find such impartial, common sense treatment "denigrating" to their religion. The only thing the professor did wrong was acquaint those students with reality.
You are a mockery every time you respond to me.
Why do you? |
You spout a misunderstanding, half-truth, or untruth every time you open your mouth. I'm just compelled to correct you.
You don't really expect your nonsense to stand unchallenged, do you?
|
"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 09/25/2007 18:18:57 |
|
|
|
Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2007 : 18:47:24 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
I have been maligned for misrepresenting my thread titles recently. I would like to point out this is a fact for this thread.
| Instructor wouldn't teach Adam & Eve, is fired |
| Bitterman's Tuesday course was telecast to students in Osceola over the Iowa Communications Network. A few students in the Osceola classroom, he said, thought the lesson was "denigrating their religion." |
Again, I have no problem with the professor denigrating anyones religion; it is that the title belies the facts presented in the article.
Fair is fair. |
Are you kidding? HH is totally right here. The professor in question lost his job because he argued that "the biblical story of Adam and Eve should not be literally interpreted." This is only "denigrating" if you're such a complete fundamentalist that even suggesting that your factually-challenged religion may not be literal is somehow a grave insult. In most rational circles, though, this isn't the case. The title as it reads is a fair one:
Instructor wouldn't teach Adam & Eve [as a literal truth and so] is fired
If he had, for instance, said that Adam and Eve were sadists interested performing lewd sex acts with animals and regularly spoke of their love of the forked-tongue snake, then you would be right that the title is misleading. But unless you're going to seriously argue that a person suggesting that, say, the Tower of Babel is a myth is "denigrating" Christianity, then you don't have much of a leg to stand on. |
|
|
|
JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 09/25/2007 : 18:50:28 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
You did not read the article based on your response. |
Of course I did. But unlike you, I understood it. The teacher refused to teach the story of Genesis as historic fact, and instead taught it as a myth or fairy tale, exactly as any educated professor should. He also gave no single religion preference in his classroom, as is in keeping with the US Constitution. Only creationists could find such impartial, common sense treatment "denigrating" to their religion. The only thing the professor did wrong was acquaint those students with reality.
|
It is a shame you can not understand the meanings of words when combined to create a sentence.
At best, one could get from reading the article that he was fired for teaching that the bible was a fictional tale. There is nothing that would lead one to believe that the teacher was required to and refused to teach Adam and Eve as fact. This is the idea of the headline of the post.
Do you have any idea that you are making my point concerning headlines?
 |
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
|
|
|
JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2007 : 18:57:30 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Are you kidding? HH is totally right here. The professor in question lost his job because he argued that "the biblical story of Adam and Eve should not be literally interpreted." This is only "denigrating" if you're such a complete fundamentalist that even suggesting that your factually-challenged religion may not be literal is somehow a grave insult. In most rational circles, though, this isn't the case. The title as it reads is a fair one:
Instructor wouldn't teach Adam & Eve [as a literal truth and so] is fired
If he had, for instance, said that Adam and Eve were sadists interested performing lewd sex acts with animals and regularly spoke of their love of the forked-tongue snake, then you would be right that the title is misleading. But unless you're going to seriously argue that a person suggesting that, say, the Tower of Babel is a myth is "denigrating" Christianity, then you don't have much of a leg to stand on.
|
Boy, Oh, Boy.
Do you guys even read what I write prior to responding.
I said that the teachers should not be fired and that unconformable thoughts should be talked about in college.
The two of you are arguing against a phantom of your own creation.
The point is; if you would think and reason prior to posting, that almost any headline could be construed as misleading if one cherry picks from the article.
|
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
|
|
|
H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2007 : 19:08:07 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
The point is; if you would think and reason prior to posting, that almost any headline could be construed as misleading if one cherry picks from the article.
|
Oh, I'm quite aware of the point you were trying to make. By splitting hairs with Mooner's choice of words, you're attempting to excuse the dozens of times you've titled your threads with gross misrepresentations of the truth. You aren't a complicated individual, Jerome. Your intentions are as easy to read as a child's when eyeing a cookie jar.
And your attempt has failed.
|
"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Instructor wouldn't teach Adam & Eve, is fired
