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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 09/28/2007 : 00:31:05
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Talk about evil, evil hypocrisy. Senator "Potty-Sex" Craig has returned to the Senate. His first act was to vote against the Matthew Shepard Act, "which expands federal hate crimes laws to include violence based on a victim's sexual orientation, gender, disability, and other factors." The Huffington Post has more.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2007 : 04:48:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Talk about evil, evil hypocrisy. Senator "Potty-Sex" Craig has returned to the Senate. His first act was to vote against the Matthew Shepard Act, "which expands federal hate crimes laws to include violence based on a victim's sexual orientation, gender, disability, and other factors." The Huffington Post has more.
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Agreed on the hypocrisy bit. Obviously the guy is a closet homo/bisexual who pretends to be a traditional family values guy in what was a successful attempt to fool the people of his great state, who would never had voted for him had they known he was a swinging homosexual. He should just move to New York, Vermont, or California where he can run for a senate seat as a homosexual who enjoys risky sex and he could probably win. Then he could show his true colors and drop the current act. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 09/28/2007 : 06:00:54 [Permalink]
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When you come right down to it, what else could he do? He has stated that he is not nor has ever been gay, evidence to the contrary that 'most everybody accepts, and to vote for it would be seen as trying to protect himself. To abstain would be the same thing, but worse. Then he'd be seen as too chicken to fight.
Talk about a rock & a hard place...
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2007 : 06:36:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
When you come right down to it, what else could he do? He has stated that he is not nor has ever been gay, evidence to the contrary that 'most everybody accepts, and to vote for it would be seen as trying to protect himself. To abstain would be the same thing, but worse. Then he'd be seen as too chicken to fight.
Talk about a rock & a hard place...
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Or he could just run as what he is, a swinging homo and/or bisexual. There are states where I am sure he could still get elected under this banner. His current state just happens to not be one of them.
What is it lately with all these homosexual politicians who cloak themselves as traditional family guys? We have this guy, the former NJ Governor comes to mind, the guy who was flirting with all the male pages and interns etc...
I miss the good ol' days when politicians cheated on their wives with other women, rather then cheating on them with other men and boys.
This reminds me of the bizzaro world. It would be like if Barney Frank secretly had a loving wife and children and the homosexuality thing was just a front to appease his voters. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2007 : 07:10:46 [Permalink]
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Bill Scott:
I miss the good ol' days when politicians cheated on their wives with other women, rather then cheating on them with other men and boys. |
Well, like most good ol' days, the one you miss probably didn't exist. It used to be that the press saw extra marital affairs as off limits and in some cases even helped politicians by looking the other way on purpose. In the case of a gay affair, the politicians were probably more discreet because even back when Kennedy was slipping down the hall, an affair with a same sex partner would have destroyed his career rather than glamorizing it.
Now the press is all over it and the men's club, that included the press and politicians is a thing of the past.
What I am saying is that there were probably gay politicians back in the good ol' days. They were just better at hiding the fact…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2007 : 07:42:06 [Permalink]
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It is highly unlikely that the homo/hetro balance amongst politicians & their various staffs & assciates is much different from that in any other field of endevor. The difference is that the closet door is a bit looser on it's hinges than it used to be.
I really don't see how sexual preferences can affect job performance. As long as that office holder is doing a decent job, I don't care. On the other hand, chasing pages and slipping out on the wife & family to dip the ol' wick in some strange stuff, of one sort or another, is a whole 'nother thing. It speaks as much for ethics as morals.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2007 : 07:49:35 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
What I am saying is that there were probably gay politicians back in the good ol' days. They were just better at hiding the fact…
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Your probably right. I guess what I am saying is in an age of PC, tolerance, and "enlightenment" why do these clowns try to hide their homosexuality? As a swinging homosexual Craig could be electable in several states, his current state just not being one of them. I suppose the power and prestige of being a US senator could be intoxicating and this causes one to go to extreme means to hold his position.. Playing the role of devoted husband and father to hide one's homosexuality just being one example.
It's just a bizarre story. Again, the converse would be if Barney Frank was discovered to secretly be married to a loving wife and they had several children while his whole homosexuality thing was just a disguise to appease his voters in a time when homosexuality is the sheik thing to be involved with in some voting districts and states.
I guess my underlying point is for these guys to just be a man and run as who they are. Enough with the wolf in sheep's clothing activities. I am sure that is wishful thinking however.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2007 : 08:05:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
I guess what I am saying is in an age of PC, tolerance, and "enlightenment" why do these clowns try to hide their homosexuality? |
Because a surprising number of people are not tolerant and do not hold enlightened views of homosexuality. They may have been raised in a conservative religious culture which sent them the message that homosexuality is a immoral "choice" which they can simply repress. So many try.
| I suppose the power and prestige of being a US senator could be intoxicating and this causes one to go to extreme means to hold his position.. Playing the role of devoted husband and father to hide one's homosexuality just being one example. |
Plenty of homosexual men with no political ambitions try to play the role of husband or father. They can live in denial of their sexuality for years, sometimes only to have it exposed over an indiscreet incident.
| I guess my underlying point is for these guys to just be a man and run as who they are. Enough with the wolf in sheep's clothing activities. I am sure that is wishful thinking however. |
Well, it doesn't have to be wishful thinking, Bill. So long as you do your part to encourage homosexual acceptance and tolerance, we might one day yet live in a society where gay men are not made to feel ashamed for being truthful about who they are.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2007 : 08:07:50 [Permalink]
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Bill Scott:
I guess my underlying point is for these guys to just be a man and run as who they are. Enough with the wolf in sheep's clothing activities. I am sure that is wishful thinking however. |
PC for republicans does not include being gay. Not in any state or district that I can think of. And since that party pushes their phony family values hog wash, to secure the vote of religious right, it would be political suicide for a republican to run as openly gay.
I mean, would you vote for a gay politician Bill? Republican or not?
What the republicans have succeeded in doing is to force hypocritical behavior among the gay politicians in their party. The only choice a conservative politician has in order to be openly gay and still run for office is to change parties, no matter what their view is on economics and other issues that are conservative by nature. Not to mention the fact that they would have to change states, as you said, which amounts to carpet bagging.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2007 : 08:11:03 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by Kil
What I am saying is that there were probably gay politicians back in the good ol' days. They were just better at hiding the fact…
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Your probably right. I guess what I am saying is in an age of PC, tolerance, and "enlightenment" why do these clowns try to hide their homosexuality? As a swinging homosexual Craig could be electable in several states, his current state just not being one of them. I suppose the power and prestige of being a US senator could be intoxicating and this causes one to go to extreme means to hold his position.. Playing the role of devoted husband and father to hide one's homosexuality just being one example.
It's just a bizarre story. Again, the converse would be if Barney Frank was discovered to secretly be married to a loving wife and they had several children while his whole homosexuality thing was just a disguise to appease his voters in a time when homosexuality is the sheik thing to be involved with in some voting districts and states.
I guess my underlying point is for these guys to just be a man and run as who they are. Enough with the wolf in sheep's clothing activities. I am sure that is wishful thinking however.
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For once, Bill and I are in agreement. Craig ought to just offer whatever apologies are required, promise upon pain of orchidectomy never to do it again, and run. In his own state, win, lose or draw.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2007 : 08:14:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
It is highly unlikely that the homo/hetro balance amongst politicians & their various staffs & assciates is much different from that in any other field of endevor. The difference is that the closet door is a bit looser on it's hinges than it used to be.
I really don't see how sexual preferences can affect job performance. As long as that office holder is doing a decent job, I don't care. On the other hand, chasing pages and slipping out on the wife & family to dip the ol' wick in some strange stuff, of one sort or another, is a whole 'nother thing. It speaks as much for ethics as morals.
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I am sure that stepping out to dip the ol' wick in some strange stuff, of one sort or another, is not much different, percentage wise, in the general population then in politics. What peeves me is when homosexual politicians hide there sexuality for the sheer fact of deceiving the voters in a conservative district. They would rather deny their sexuality then run the risk of losing their power. What happened to "loud-n-proud"?
It would be no different and would peeve me just as much if a heterosexual candidate hid his is sexuality and ran as a homosexual in a more liberal district just to appease the voter block. In both cases they would be elected through deception of the voters.
This is just my guess, but I would bet more of the voters in Crag's state, or at least just as many, are disgusted by the deception just as much, if not more, then they are by the fact that Craig is a practicing homosexual |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2007 : 08:18:29 [Permalink]
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Bill said:
I guess my underlying point is for these guys to just be a man and run as who they are. Enough with the wolf in sheep's clothing activities. |
A wolf in sheeps clothing? Sounds like your answer is in your question.
They are hiding something that is nobodys business. These guys might think they have something to offer but if their sexual orientation were revealed they would not have the opportunity.
Now that said, a person who persecutes homosexuals and has homosexual encounters is a hypocrite.
Just out of curiosity Bill is a 'swinging homosexual' different from a regular homosexual?
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2007 : 09:15:18 [Permalink]
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| What peeves me is when homosexual politicians hide there sexuality for the sheer fact of deceiving the voters in a conservative district. They would rather deny their sexuality then run the risk of losing their power. What happened to "loud-n-proud"? |
Bill, would you vote for an openly gay candidate? If not, then this is just your desire to see all the homos self-identify so you can discriminate against them more easily. So long as you decide to treat homosexuals as pariahs, many homosexuals are going to hide their sexuality from you. A climate of intolerance only leads to deception. It seems like many conservatives are too dense to learn this lesson.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2007 : 09:47:09 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by H. Humbert |
| Because a surprising number of people are not tolerant and do not hold enlightened views of homosexuality. They may have been raised in a conservative religious culture which sent them the message that homosexuality is a immoral "choice" which they can simply repress. So many try. |
What does this have to do with deceiving voters just to get elected or reelected? The voters have the right to vote for or against a candidate for any reason they choose fit. So are you saying that it is acceptable for a homosexual to deceive his voters and run as something he is not just to gain the seat? So would you then not have a problem if a heterosexual ran as a homosexual just to deceive the voters is more liberal district? Again, both positions would have been gained through fraud and deception of the voters.
| Plenty of homosexual men with no political ambitions try to play the role of husband or father. They can live in denial of their sexuality for years, sometimes only to have it exposed over an indiscreet incident. |
Again, most times to protect their position in life they have obtained, wither it be political, or in the private sector. If they are homosexual why do they stayed married or why were they married in the first place?
| Well, it doesn't have to be wishful thinking, Bill. So long as you do your part to encourage homosexual acceptance and tolerance, we might one day yet live in a society where gay men are not made to feel ashamed for being truthful about who they are. |
Again, your trying to mix homosexual civil rights and the homosexuals purposefully deceiving their voters to gain or hold onto their power. Two completely separate issues. Every voter should know who they are voter for and they will be madder then a disturbed hornet's nest if they find out they were deliberately deceived.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2007 : 09:54:10 [Permalink]
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| PC for republicans does not include being gay. Not in any state or district that I can think of. And since that party pushes their phony family values hog wash, to secure the vote of religious right, it would be political suicide for a republican to run as openly gay. |
Even if true, this does not give the homosexual the right to willingly deceive the voters who have the right to vote for or against the politician for anything they so choose.
| I mean, would you vote for a gay politician Bill? Republican or not? |
No. But as a legal voter that is my right. I will be mad as heck if the candidate I vote for purposely deceived me just for the vote. As I am sure you would be too.
| What the republicans have succeeded in doing is to force hypocritical behavior among the gay politicians in their party. |
Umm, the voters are the one who force this behavior. If they don't agree with homosexuality then they can vote that way. This then forces any homosexual who runs in that district to resort to deception, rather then lose power.
| The only choice a conservative politician has in order to be openly gay and still run for office is to change parties, |
Or move to different district where the voters would vote you in as a participating homosexual. Deception is not the answer
| no matter what their view is on economics and other issues that are conservative by nature. Not to mention the fact that they would have to change states, as you said, which amounts to carpet bagging. |
Or they could just deceive the voters and run as something they are not. I am sure you would love it if the man you voted for turned out to be a fraud.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Craig returns, 1st votes against hate crime act
