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JohnOAS
SFN Regular
Australia
800 Posts |
 Posted - 10/21/2007 : 18:49:48
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OFFC's comment, and the discussion that followed it (here) prompted me to start a new topic.
This is my opinion, but I'm happy to be persuaded otherwise:
It's never too early, with the caveat that you have to be sensitive to the intersection of your medium/platform of choice and those that are the target of your humour, or at least likely to be affected by it.
With that in mind, when I'm particularly sensitive to something because of various happenings in my personal world, I don't go around expecting others to read my mind or tread softly around me because they should know better.
In fact, and I'm not sure if this is a good or a bad thing, but it annoys the hell out of me when people treat me differently because of something when I've given no indication that this would be appreciated. I know sometimes people mean well, but sometimes getting on with things "as normal" is part of dealing with things.
Looking back at that those last two paragraphs, that's all a little vague, I know. I could add some specific examples, but I think what I've said makes sense without them. Let me know if you disagree.
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John's just this guy, you know. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2007 : 19:47:08 [Permalink]
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The "Too Soon Problem" is one of the most difficult conundrums in humor science.
I more of less agree that it's never "too soon" to joke of tragedy. But that's always going to be a tough, subjective call. I personally give extra slack to artists, comedians, and writers on this topic, just because I know how impossible it is to draw definite lines that should not be crossed. Also, sometimes, giving maximum offense is quite intentional.
But people also reserve and deserve a right to be offended. Even I can be offended. Anyone doing humor should be ready to suffer slings and arrows as a regular consequence of their "craft." I just try to bear in mind that the best humor presses against, or transgresses, the lines of decency. If the humorist is not pressing the limits, you get Dennis the Menace, not Bart Simpson. As a wannabe humorist, I'd rather offend people (deliberately or unintentionally) than bore them. Unfortunately, I often manage to do both.
It's not personal, it's just monkeybusiness.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 10/21/2007 19:57:20 |
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The Rat
SFN Regular
Canada
1370 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2007 : 20:15:39 [Permalink]
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| There's no easy answer to this question, circumstances dictate it more than anything else. If a newscaster was making jokes about a tragedy within days, everyone would scream. But a bunch of blue-collar guys having lunch would start with the gallows humour within minutes (been there, done that). And sometimes it's fitting. When Rodney Dangerfield died most people were making jokes as soon as they could think of them, because they knew that he wouldn't want it any other way. |
Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.
You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II
Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590 |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2007 : 20:24:19 [Permalink]
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| Sometimes when I'm faced with a problem such as this, I consult the insights of the masters. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2007 : 20:44:10 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by The Rat
When Rodney Dangerfield died most people were making jokes as soon as they could think of them, because they knew that he wouldn't want it any other way. |
I figured Jerry Falwell would want the same.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2007 : 20:45:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Chippewa
Sometimes when I'm faced with a problem such as this, I consult the insights of the masters.
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Those guys were too dignified.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2007 : 21:17:15 [Permalink]
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Gilbert Gottfried:Gottfried famously told the venerable Aristocrats joke at a Friars Club roast of Hugh Hefner just three weeks after the September 11 terrorist attacks. It's been suggested that this performance inspired Penn Jillette and Paul Provenza to produce a film about the joke. However, Jillette and Provenza point out that they had already filmed Gottfried. In fact, it was their project that inspired Gottfried to choose that joke as his response to the audience's claim that there are certain unspoken limits in comedy. Gottfried initially began his performance joking that he had intended to catch a plane but could not get a direct flight because "they said they have to stop at the Empire State Building first." As audience members responded with gasps and cries of "Too soon!", he launched into the Aristocrats joke, effectively winning back the audience and having roastmaster Rob Schneider literally falling out of his chair laughing. When the laughter and applause had subsided, Gottfried commented, "They probably won't show this on TV," to more laughter and applause. The clips in The Aristocrats (NSFW) don't really do it justice, I don't think.
What's the point? The point is that three weeks after 9/11, professional comedians were howling "too soon!" at a one-liner about 9/11. But minutes later, those same comedians were howling with laughter at what is probably the most tasteless joke in the world (depending on who tells it, but it usually beats the Chihuahua joke hands down).
Just goes to show that there's no accounting for taste. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2007 : 03:23:25 [Permalink]
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Gottfried's my hero.
He knew, on a deep, visceral level, that those people needed to laugh. Even after his utterly humiliating "too soon" failure, he plowed on relentlessly. He was like a physician with a terrible medication that he must administer. To met my mixaphors: He knew that the vein of gold was in the dangerous, collapsing, part of the mine.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 10/22/2007 03:26:11 |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2007 : 06:19:48 [Permalink]
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| My favorite is from South Park, during Satan's super sweet 16 costume party, Satan is notified that someone has shown up wearing a Crocodile Hunter costume and its really offending some of the guests.(Show came out the week after his death) So Satan confronts him and asks him to leave, the guy informs satan that he IS the Croc Hunter....Satan: "oh well then, dude, no costume, you gotta go" |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2007 : 06:22:20 [Permalink]
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Here's the Universal Law of Too Soon(which I just invented)
Beware, while it is never too soon to tell a joke about any tragedy, it is also never too soon for someone to kick your ass for telling it. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2007 : 07:54:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
Here's the Universal Law of Too Soon(which I just invented)
Beware, while it is never too soon to tell a joke about any tragedy, it is also never too soon for someone to kick your ass for telling it.
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Exactly right!
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2007 : 08:49:32 [Permalink]
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| As a kid, I recall hearing jokes the day after the Challenger explosion. And I think on news stations and such, there were discussions about the fact that people would be joking about it so soon. |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2007 : 10:30:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Cuneiformist
As a kid, I recall hearing jokes the day after the Challenger explosion. And I think on news stations and such, there were discussions about the fact that people would be joking about it so soon.
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I remember that....I was in college when that happened. I swear it seemed like only hours before we heard:
"What does NASA stand for?.......Need another seven astronauts."
"How man astronauts can you fit in a compact car?........11; two in the front, two in the back and seven in the ash tray" |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2007 : 10:47:35 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by astropin
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
As a kid, I recall hearing jokes the day after the Challenger explosion. And I think on news stations and such, there were discussions about the fact that people would be joking about it so soon.
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I remember that....I was in college when that happened. I swear it seemed like only hours before we heard:
"What does NASA stand for?.......Need another seven astronauts."
"How man astronauts can you fit in a compact car?........11; two in the front, two in the back and seven in the ash tray"
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This was my experience as well. And while I don't recall any 9-11 jokes immediately after that tragedy, I also was past the age of spending my time on playgrounds. I suspect schoolchildren were joking about the events pretty quickly, most likely using punchlines recycled from other tragedies, such as the Challenger explosion.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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JohnOAS
SFN Regular
Australia
800 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2007 : 16:13:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
What's the point? The point is that three weeks after 9/11, professional comedians were howling "too soon!" at a one-liner about 9/11. But minutes later, those same comedians were howling with laughter at what is probably the most tasteless joke in the world |
Gilbert was a reasonably regular guest on Penn's now defunct radio show, and I remember him telling that exact story, in fact I had that episode in my mind when I started this thread. I have most of them as mp3 files on a hard drive somewhere, but finding the exact episode may be a little tricky. The Penn Fans site also had a pretty good archive, although I haven't been there in ages.
Originally posted by Dave W.
Just goes to show that there's no accounting for taste. |
Absolutely. And that's a good thing.
On the whole I'll agree with what a few people have more or less said; have at it as early as you like, but be aware that there may be consequences. |
John's just this guy, you know. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2007 : 16:25:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by astropin
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
As a kid, I recall hearing jokes the day after the Challenger explosion. And I think on news stations and such, there were discussions about the fact that people would be joking about it so soon.
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I remember that....I was in college when that happened. I swear it seemed like only hours before we heard:
"What does NASA stand for?.......Need another seven astronauts."
"How man astronauts can you fit in a compact car?........11; two in the front, two in the back and seven in the ash tray"
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I think it was my fresman year of college. I started hearing several of them within a week.
What was the last transmission from Challenger? No, I wanted a Bud Light.
What color were Christa McAuliff's eyes? Blue. One blew that way and the other blew the other way.
What did Christa McAuliff say to her kids before she left? You feed the dog and I'll feed the fish.
It was a needed bit of gallows humor to snap people out of the horror of what had happened. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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How soon is too soon?
