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LizW
Skeptic Friend
USA
113 Posts |
 Posted - 11/09/2007 : 11:56:31
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Hi guys,
I am writing a research paper (the last one I wrote was in 1953 and the subject was "The Communist Menace: People Who Will Eat Cold Beet Soup Cannot Be Trusted"),and I was looking for some brilliant and captivating opinions. So please open the floodgates of your never ending wit and wisdom and give me any input you can. I promise, if it moves me, I will add you to my citations page and you will be considered something like a demigod (to one frustrated English Comp prof, and about 20 kids fresh out of highschool who have no clue what the word demigod means).
I had to choose from a list of present day celebrities, and pick a celebrity from history (pre 1840) and develope a thesis that could be supported using them and their work as examples. I chose Stephen King and Edgar Allan Poe to support my thesis that works in horror are often not judged on their merits, but on how scholars and critics view the genre as a whole. My working title is "Underestimating Fear: Artists of the Horror Genre in a Pop Culture Ghetto"
So if anyone has any thoughts on the subject, I would love to hear them (come...waste time with me...you know you want to).
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You learn something new every g****mn day! |
Edited by - LizW on 11/09/2007 11:58:05
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 13:39:48 [Permalink]
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Okay, everyone: help my wife with her homework.
(This is, with luck, the closest I'll ever come to actually abusing my power here.) |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 13:45:45 [Permalink]
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Hi, LizW. If you're looking for some opinion on King, search the New York Times book review. For instance, here, a reviewer writes| Which brings us to the strange case of Stephen King, the lord of pulp horror who, several years ago, was adopted by the editors of The New Yorker. King's short stories now regularly crop up there, set in the same distinguished font as Updike's. The message behind this move is that King the writer -- as opposed to the multimedia phenomenon -- has been unfairly consigned to a pop ghetto and is better, more serious, than the snobs imagine. |
I also note a bit of snark in a review of King's On Writing seen here.
I don't know much about Poe's reception at the time, but he is now rather revered, no? But it would be interesting to see if his work was considered to be as great in a time closer to its actual publication. I look forward to hearing more of your research! |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 13:47:07 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
(This is, with luck, the closest I'll ever come to actually abusing my power here.) |
Besides firing the entire SFN staff on a whim, right?  |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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LizW
Skeptic Friend
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 15:33:44 [Permalink]
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Thanks Cuneiformist, you are the ginchiest! I would rather know your own opinion on the subject though. How do you feel about the genre, or either author? Do you think when artists work in horror they get judged fairly? you don't have to restrict your thoughts to just these guys. What about Lovecraft, Stoker, Clive Barker, Kafka... or films by Hitchcock, Romero, Kubrik etc...
visual artists (Bosch anyone?) What do YOU think. Thank you for the info though. |
You learn something new every g****mn day! |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 15:52:03 [Permalink]
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It raises an interesting question: what is horror/art? That which might horrify & disgust me may only attract a passing glance from someone else, and even inspire humor in others. Here's an example:
Piss Christ
This one caught a lot of flack of many sorts when it went on display. And it works on so many levels.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 15:57:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
This one caught a lot of flack of many sorts when it went on display. And it works on so many levels.
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The only problem I had with that was too many bubbles. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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LizW
Skeptic Friend
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 16:05:22 [Permalink]
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| excellent point, I was thinking the same thing last night. I really like Stephen King and have read most of his books, but the scariest book I've ever read is THE HANDMAID'S TALE by Margaret Atwood. It wouldn't even be categorized as horror but instead as...feminist political fable? |
You learn something new every g****mn day! |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 16:07:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by pleco
Originally posted by filthy
This one caught a lot of flack of many sorts when it went on display. And it works on so many levels.
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The only problem I had with that was too many bubbles.
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The biggest problem I had was a co-worker who wouldn't shut the hell up about it. He was really, well, er, pissed.
I have always found a strange, rather haunting beauty in it.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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LizW
Skeptic Friend
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 16:29:10 [Permalink]
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| When I was majoring in photography (the first time I went to college) I did a project on Maplethorpe. Piss Christ is nothing you should see some of the images he did featuring "fisting". |
You learn something new every g****mn day! |
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LizW
Skeptic Friend
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 16:32:47 [Permalink]
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| filthy, pleco let me drag you back on topic. Do you feel that artists who work in horror genre have their work evaluated fairly. So far as what is horror, to paraphrase a senator on the subject of porn "I can't give you a definition but I know it when I see it". |
You learn something new every g****mn day! |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 17:15:03 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by LizW
Thanks Cuneiformist, you are the ginchiest! I would rather know your own opinion on the subject though. How do you feel about the genre, or either author? Do you think when artists work in horror they get judged fairly? you don't have to restrict your thoughts to just these guys. What about Lovecraft, Stoker, Clive Barker, Kafka... or films by Hitchcock, Romero, Kubrik etc...
visual artists (Bosch anyone?) What do YOU think. Thank you for the info though.
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Well, my opinion isn't worth all that much. When I was younger, I read King quite often. Though the last book I recall reading of his was Misery. The most compelling was either The Stand or, probably 'Salem's Lot. I haven't read much Poe, but I don't read much fiction as it is. IN fact, of the people you listed, the only one I've read is Stoker's Dracula, and I found it to be rather slow.
I guess I'm somehow slave to the sort of Literature Elites, though, since when I read certain books (like those of King) I feel like I'm reading one thing that is different from reading something from Poe. But is this real, or just perception? I admit that some crappy Star Wars fiction is going to be second rate. But is King really not on the same page as Updike (as tacitly implied in the review I quoted)? I don't know. Sometimes, I get that sense.
But I'm not clear on your objectives for research. What, exactly are you looking for? And if it is the opinion of SFN regulars, why is that of value over, say, a random person at the local NoVa Barnes & Noble? |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 18:03:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by LizW
When I was majoring in photography (the first time I went to college) I did a project on Maplethorpe. Piss Christ is nothing you should see some of the images he did featuring "fisting".
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Hey, Liz.
See you're still putting up with Dave. He gets fire-y.
Anyhoo.
Lovecraft is my personal fave. He and Ambrose Bierce disappeared and were heard from again. Kinda creepy in real life. Lovecraft's Chthulu elder gods scared the crap out of me. Ripping good yarn.
The horror genre itself when taken from the psychological side is really quite interesting. The masters of the psychological thrillers like Shelley, Lovecraft, (to a lesser extent) King, and Hitchcock were excellent in their craft. But so were other people who could be considered artists in their own twisted ways like Jack the Ripper, and The Columbian Expition serial killer. Bundy, Gacy, and Dahmer all had their own unique artistic bents.
For some of the more provocative artist of the Chicago area, I would suggest the student (David K. Nelson) who painted "Mirth and Girth" shortly after Chicago Mayor Harold Washington's death. It was art for the sake of provoking very strong emotional responses. It worked. I've hated Ald. Bobby Rush and Ald. Dorothy Tillman ever since because of their unConstitutional and morally reprehensible conduct.
By way of comparison you could have philosophers.
Modern: Timothy Leary (Tune in, Turn on, Drop out)
Classical: Socrates, Rene Descartes
Serial killers
Modern: Bundy
Near-classical (1893): H. H. Holmes
Classical: Elizabeth Bathory
Tale of good triumphing over evil and love saving the day
Modern: Star Wars
Classical: The legend of Robin Hood
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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LizW
Skeptic Friend
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 18:13:52 [Permalink]
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| But I'm not clear on your objectives for research. What, exactly are you looking for? And if it is the opinion of SFN regulars, why is that of value over, say, a random person at the local NoVa Barnes & Noble? |
The objective for the research itself is to expose myself to as many perspectives on the subject as possible, mostly to see if anything of interest jumps out at me that I would like to explore for my paper, partly for my own curiosity. I have already made use of the standard research sources (I have 4 books on King, 7 on Poe, I have about 8 magazine articles I searched out on Proquest and Factiva 5 of those are from peer reviewed journals,I haven't even counted the newspaper articles and web page printings (The Baltimore Poe Society, The Richmond Virginia Edgar Allan Poe Museum, Stephen King's home page, The Library of Congress online...)
I also value opinions from just random individuals (yes even the person at Barnes & Noble if he has a brain to think and a mouth to express himself). One of the arguments that I am going to use to support my thesis, is that literary critics and scholars are unable to be objective about horror because they have absorbed years of educational dogma that says horror (and many other facets of pop culture)are below the interest of the educated pallet.
I would like to see some thoughts from people who are not part of the field. A pool of observers who each have their own perspective. (sorry, I let this reply ramble on a bit. I should have given you the answer I often give our son "because I asked you to...")
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You learn something new every g****mn day! |
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LizW
Skeptic Friend
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 18:21:27 [Permalink]
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| hi dancer. I did not have any of those particular present day celebs available. I actually did choose a different duo to start with. Gloria Steinem and the Marquis DeSade, but I couldn't develop a thesis that was feasible for the amount of research required. |
You learn something new every g****mn day! |
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Are death, insanity and mutation art?
