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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 01/17/2008 : 20:04:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Dave, with all of the above in mind; what would be your critically-thought-out advice be, as to how to decide, to a totally uncommitted Independent who will be going into the voting booth to vote for President next November? What information should the voter use to define a candidate?
What do you think now as to what a voter can, and can not, infer from a candidate's campaign statements and from that candidate's past personal and political behavior and professed beliefs? |
If I could answer your questions, bngbuck, I wouldn't have been wondering how well we can predict a candidate's performance from his/her past behavior.
Instead, I'd be the best-paid political strategist in history. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2008 : 23:26:16 [Permalink]
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So now you can't even answer a question about what you think?
Interesting.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2008 : 06:20:51 [Permalink]
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Pfft, thats a BS response Dude.
Interesting.
He's saying that it is a question he wants answered as well or may in fact be unanswerable. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2008 : 07:26:12 [Permalink]
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No, he is refusing to follow his thinking to its conclusion. If the question is unanswerable, then voting is a pointless activity.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2008 : 08:16:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
If the question is unanswerable, then voting is a pointless activity.
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Now were on the same page, I'm all for the random dart board elections, or God forbid some kind of actual meritocracy. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2008 : 11:13:38 [Permalink]
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Okay, Politicianados©, here's the scenario:
You are a highly-paid totally non-partisan political advisor.
The newly-formed Independent Alliance, a national association of Independent Voters, has hired you to advise them.
The IA does not have a candidate, they are not a political party. This is an organization devoted to informing non-partisan voters as to how to choose among the viable Republican and Democratic candidates. Their goal is to be as objective as possible in analyzing the candidates. If an independent Party candidate surfaces and appears to be a viable candidate, she is included in the mix. The IA advises caucus and primary voters, as well as general election voters.
Some of the information sources available for consideration are:
1. What the candidate says and conveys in speech and debate.
2. The published record of the candidate's political action.
3. Strongly biased political ads.
4. Opinion from TV, Internet, newspapers, radio.
5. News stories, possibly planted, good or bad behavior or statements.
6. Endorsement by celebrities, other politicians.
7. Endorsement by church and religious organizations.
8. Endorsement by labor, professional, other organizations.
9. Other---feel free to add any source you wish.
How do you apply Critical and Creative Thinking, of which you are a Morrisian and Rovian Master, to analysis of this problem nine months in advance of the General Election? How do you earn the big bucks that the IA is paying you to advise them as to how to inform their members?
Most importantly, what is your specific advice?
So far, here's the tally:
Dave W.....Haven't got a clue!
bngbuck....
Listen carefully to the candidate, believe much of what he says as intention.
Carefully note past political and personal actions, they speak louder than poletoric©!
Largely ignore the ads, positive and negative.
Listen carefully to both left and right pundits. Occasionally, they make sense. The more intellectual, the better. Beware hyperbole.
Listen, with a large grain of salt, to celebrity endorsements. (Consider Chuck Norris' intellectual and political bona fides, for example)
Ignore religious endorsement. This is vested interest pure and simple.
Listen to labor, legal and other organizational endorsement with a highly critical ear. More vested interest!
Dude....?
Filthy....?
Cune....?
Half Mooner....?
Big Papa Smurf....?
Marfknox....?
Moakley....?
H.Humbert....?
Anybody else lurking....?
C'mon, guys, your ideas are going in a book! You can sue me for plagiarism when I make the big bucks!
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2008 : 11:32:35 [Permalink]
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| I think perhaps the best indicator is all the shit they said before they had intentions of running for office. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2008 : 11:38:49 [Permalink]
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The question was asked in the most general terms possible. Of course I can't say what some hypothetical voter should be able to infer about some hypothetical candidate based on hypothetical behaviour in a hypothetical political climate with a hypothetical background. The idea that I should be able to come up with generalized voting inferences that would cover both Clinton and Huckabee is ludicrous.
Let's go back to your example question, Dude, of what kind of justice Huckabee would appoint. The answer must be "it depends," because it would depend on the strength of the opposition in the Senate at whatever time the need arises for an appointment. Unless you think the man is a political fool, the idea that he would even bother nominating an ultra-right Reconstructionist nut-job in the face of a strong Democratic majority is silly, because he'd just waste political capital. An easier question to answer would be "what kind of justice would Huckabee want to nominate," because that doesn't depend upon the political environment nearly as much, and would obviously be the starting point from which a compromise would necessarily occur.
So, "what information should a random voter use to determine whether a random candidate in a random political climate is a good choice" (effectively the question bngbuck asked) is, indeed, unanswerable, as should be obvious. How much weight any voter should put on any particular issue is going to be a personal matter. There are few objective measures of good governance, and fewer still objective means through which a voter can predict good governance. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2008 : 11:48:43 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
How do you earn the big bucks that the IA is paying you to advise them as to how to inform their members?
Most importantly, what is your specific advice?
So far, here's the tally:
Dave W.....Haven't got a clue! |
The IA doesn't pay me the big bucks for a very good reason.bngbuck....
Listen carefully to the candidate, believe much of what he says as intention.
Carefully note past political and personal actions, they speak louder than poletoric©!
Largely ignore the ads, positive and negative.
Listen carefully to both left and right pundits. Occasionally, they make sense. The more intellectual, the better. Beware hyperbole.
Listen, with a large grain of salt, to celebrity endorsements. (Consider Chuck Norris' intellectual and political bona fides, for example)
Ignore religious endorsement. This is vested interest pure and simple.
Listen to labor, legal and other organizational endorsement with a highly critical ear. More vested interest! |
So: collect info, collect, ignore, collect, maybe collect, ignore, maybe collect.
No methods proposed for integration or analysis of the data thus gathered, nor for even actually choosing a candidate. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2008 : 12:01:21 [Permalink]
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| Well, the reason for choosing a candidate will vary with each person. One man's good reason to vote for a candidate is the same reason another man has to vote against that candidate. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Buck on Huck
