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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
 Posted - 01/28/2008 : 10:56:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the seeker
So, what do you guys think...are people born gay, straight, or bisexual? |
It appears that genetics is a big part of it. It's not the only part, probably, but it's a big part of it. And IMHO strict homosexuals are different from bisexuals; I think bi's are exercising more choice in their lifestyle. The few gay people I've been friends enough with to ask have all said they'd been gay from early childhood and couldn't remember not being gay. It's not like one day they thought, hey, I want to try men out for a change. They found women unattractive sexually, presumably the same way straight men find other men unattractive.
That said, I don't care much for this question. For me, it doesn't ultimately matter. So long as they arn't causing unreasonable harm to others, consenting adults should be allowed to have whatever sex life they want and it's nobody else's business. Personal freedom, or the appearance of it, supercedes an observer's repugnance. The only reason people without an academic interest in this topic want to argue one way or another is to support or combat biggotry. People have to choose to be sinners. It's much less palatable to punish people if they didn't choose to be evil.
And in the end, no matter how much evidence there is that homosexuality is a naturally occuring phenomenon, those who would persecute and oppress gays will not change their mind. Because then it becomes a cross to bear - god gave you this special test of Faith and if you indulge your evil inner desires, you have failed and spat upon god's special attention to you. People will always find ways to rationalize the oppressive reactions to their fears. So, in the end, this question is only discussed in the context of a hopeless battle against fear, ignorance, intolerance, persecution and oppression. |
-Chaloobi
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2008 : 11:11:06 [Permalink]
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Just to clarify/muddy this whole question,
Are you saying that some people who are only attracted to the same sex, are choosing to be attracted only to the same sex? |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2008 : 11:37:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
Just to clarify/muddy this whole question,
Are you saying that some people who are only attracted to the same sex, are choosing to be attracted only to the same sex?
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Um, no, I'm not saying that. Were you asking me? |
-Chaloobi
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2008 : 11:51:41 [Permalink]
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Not you silly
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"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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emsby
Skeptic Friend
76 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2008 : 12:21:59 [Permalink]
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First of all, I'd like to correct some misunderstandings you seem to have here. You said:
| It's not that they're JUST attracted to the same sex, it's that they feel like a female in a male's body and via versa. |
Actually, being homosexual absolutely is just being attracted to the same sex. It by no means denotes a feeling of being a woman trapped in a man's body. You are confusing transexuals with homosexuals. A homosexual (gay person) is sexually attracted to members of the same sex, but has no desire to change their own sex. A transexual may or may not be attracted the members of the same sex, but feels that they were born in the wrong body, be it male or female. Then you have transvestites, drag queens, cross-dressers... who may or may not be gay, but nonetheless enjoy dressing up in the clothing normally associated with members of the opposite sex.
So while you speak about choice, you seem to be confusing being gay with being transexual. Now... to answer your question.
No, I don't think homosexuality is a "choice." However, I'm of the mind that a person's sexuality is a fluid thing and can be influenced by experience and environment. Some people are just born gay and that's it. Some people are just born straight and that's it. Some people go through traumatic experiences in their lives that may affect their sexuality. Some people have very free and open minds to new experiences and enjoy sex with both genders. So while I don't think there's a "choice" element ( I mean, nobody wakes up and says 'I think I'll choose to be gay today' ) there's definitely a fluidity to it.
Hope that helps.
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Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earthbound misfit, I. |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2008 : 12:31:35 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
Not you silly
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Well your post was right after mine and you didn't reference anyone in particular, so who knows? |
-Chaloobi
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2008 : 12:35:31 [Permalink]
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| It was just an unwritten portion of the psychic contest, you failed. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2008 : 12:58:37 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the seeker
I see a lot of artists turning bisexual and experimenting. I think that it is partially part of the indigo personality, along with being accused of having/diagnoses with ADHD and whatnot.
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For those who don't get the reference here, "indigo personality" is almost certainly a reference to Indigo Children, a term coined by the self-professed psychic Nancy Ann Tappe to describe children she sees with a deep blue aura.
A channeler by the name of Lee Carroll wrote a book titled The Indigo Children. According to the Skeptic's Dictionary:
| One thesis of The Indigo Children seems to be that many children diagnosed as having attention deficit disorder (ADD) or ADHD (attention deficit hyperactivity disorder) represent "a new kind of evolution of humanity."* These children don't need drugs like Ritalin, but special care and training. The book consists of dozens of articles by authors from many walks of life. It is, accordingly, inconsistent and uneven in quality of analysis and advice. Nancy Ann Tappe is a contributor. One of the authors is Robert Gerard, Ph.D., whose piece is called "Emissaries from Heaven." He believes his daughter is an Indigo Child. He also thinks "Most Indigos see angels and other beings in the etheric." He runs Oughten House Foundation, Inc., and sells angel cards. Another contributor is Doreen Virtue, an advocate of angel therapy who has found an even further evolved generation of children is now emerging: the Crystal children. |
How the seeker is tying ADHD and all of this New Age nonsense in together with homosexuality is unclear. Apparently she feels all are indicative of an "artistic personality," or something. News to homosexuals and artists both, I'm sure.
Originally posted by the seeker
Sorry if I didn't do any research for this and I sound rather ignorant, but I was just stating my own theory/opinion. |
Yes, your opinions sound very ignorant. I guess the lesson is to do some research next time.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2008 : 13:53:37 [Permalink]
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I second emsby's response 100%.
More important than the questions of what causes a homosexual orientation and whether or not individuals can choose to change their orientation or not, is the issue of personal relationships and major life choices made based on those.
For instance, if two people are already in love and want to be in a committed relationship, the question of their sexual orientation in general becomes rather insignificant. Chris and Marty love each other and want to live their lives together as life partners, and that is all that matters anymore.
It also applies to more casual, purely physical encounters. Chris and Marty happen to want to have sexual relations with each other right now, and right now that is all that matters. I just saw Margaret Cho's standup performance "I'm The One I Want" on DVD, and there is a part of it where she mentions performing on a lesbian cruise, and during the cruise she had sex with a woman for the first and so far only time in her life. She said that afterward she started anxiously asking herself the questions, "Am I straight? Am I gay?" Then she smiles slyly and said that she realized that what she was was a slut. Crass, but certainly drives home a useful point. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 01/28/2008 13:54:11 |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2008 : 06:09:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
It was just an unwritten portion of the psychic contest, you failed.
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Story of my life... |
-Chaloobi
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The ol' "gay, straight, or bi"
