|
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2008 : 03:45:15 [Permalink]
|
Welcome to the SFN Monkey House, BlueCollar!| My favorite thing about creationism is how they load their minions with literally thirty seconds of talking points, and then send them into the audiences where I'm speaking (almost invariably about astronomy, not biology) to "confront" me with the "evidence" that "science" is a load of baloney. |
That kind of ambush must be unsettling. How do you handle it?
|
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/15/2008 03:46:17 |
 |
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 02/15/2008 : 04:51:54 [Permalink]
|
Hi Blue and welcome!
I just finished checking out your website and found it very good indeed. I especally like the Zimmer article on the bat fossil, and what a fossil it is! Beautiful definition! I hadn't known about that one, and now I'll be looking for comment at the usual suspect's places. It should be highly imaginitive, offering a plethoria of spavined apologetics.....
Looking forward to your further input!
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
|
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 02/15/2008 : 08:06:11 [Permalink]
|
It puts the 'fun' in fundy.....
It's rather like shooting fish in a barrel, isn‘t it, and a dry barrel at that. It's not very sportsman-like, I know, but then, I've never been accused of being very sporty. And I'm lazy. And I like being a right bastard to AiG, that collection of over-funded and overbearing, sanctimonious menteurs extraordinaire.
They are really hung up on Dinosauria but lack any substantial knowledge of the order. Who else would claim that T. rex was a vegetarian, subsisting on coconuts & pineapples & hell, I dunno, tofu maybe? Who else would claim, with straight faces yet, that this same, ferocious predator/scavenger, capable of swallowing a quarter of a steer in one, bloody chunk, lived happily cheek-by-jowl with humans?
I tell you, that is an insult to the dino as well as the intelligence of anyone capable of the powers of unscrambled thought!
Let's play a little game, shall we? Let us find the mistakes and the misrepresentations in this, yet another, silly dinosaur screed. Right off the bat, we find some doozys in the very first paragraph. D'ya see ‘em?
Dinosaurs are some of the most fascinating animals, and children especially are intrigued by them. This is one reason why evolutionists use them, over and over, to teach millions of years and evolution. Christians, however, should use dinosaurs to teach the true history of the universe. When children, young people, and adults are informed about the truth of dinosaurs, they can answer the questions of a skeptical world and spread the good news of the gospel. When dinosaurs are used to spread the gospel, they become “missionary lizards.”
And there's plenty more, all playing upon the lamentable scientific ignorance of the general public.
I will give them a little credit for a neat drawing of a Ceratopsian, though.
But unfortunately, it's more spectacular than instructive.
And now a little example of the dishonesty represented by this blurt, just to show what you‘re getting into when you begin to pick the load apart:
Scientists have classified over 300 dinosaur species, but it is reasonable to assume that different sizes, varieties, and sexes of the same kind of dinosaur have ended up with different names. There may have been only 50 or fewer original kinds of dinosaurs that God created on Day 6 of Creation Week.
Outright lie! Scientists have classified some 300 Genera, not species of dinosaur -- there is a huge difference. And it is not at all “reasonable to assume that different sizes, varieties, and sexes of the same kind of dinosaur have ended up with different names.” Science doesn't work on unsupported assumptions, unlike those who consider a text originally composed by goatherds, or the equivalent, as authoritative.
So, there it is; have fun. I did. 
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
| Edited by - filthy on 02/15/2008 08:35:41 |
|
|
|
Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
 Posted - 02/15/2008 : 09:02:06 [Permalink]
|
Hello BlueCollarScientist and welcome to Skeptic Friends Network
|
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
|
|
|
chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2008 : 09:29:20 [Permalink]
|
I'm confused about motivations in ID and Creationism. There's a lot of fallacies/inaccuracies/mistakes in their arguments and material. Much of it is ignorance driven by intense faith and wishful thinking. But there appears to be intentional falsification as well, perhaps a great deal. Ignorance is easy to explain, but why the lies?
The cynic might say the liars don't even believe in ID, they know it's unsupportable and not really science, and they push it for money; donations, grants, whatever. They are in effect modern snake oil salesman with only $ as motivator.
Curiously this is the same argument I've heard against real scientists. Many people make this claim when I ask what the motivation would be for such a huge conspiracy required to fake climate warming science. I've also heard arguments from Jehova's Witnesses that virtually all science is faked, being a giant scam to pilfer money from wherever they can get it.
Other possibilities: ignorance can make people do desperate things. If my Faith is so strong that I'm absolutely certain that Creationism is real and that this whole evolution/cosmology thing is at best a trap set by Satan, but I'm also lacking in the expertise to find the proof that would save humanity from eternal damnation, I might tell a fib. What is the sin of a few falsehoods (and sloth, since I'm too lazy to educate myself) compared to the dooping of humanity by Satan? It's like Jesus dying to save humanity, I can make the sacrifice of divine rebuke to save billions from far worse. Humanity has to be saved, this I know, but I don't have the expertise to do it, so I cut corners and fake it.
A related thought might be that even though evolution and cosmology are real science, perhaps some of these folks feel like this knowledge is not good for humanity. Afterall, knowledge is what got us in trouble with God to begin with. Science is just one long munch on the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of right and wrong, life and death. What we don't know can't hurt us, but what we do know might lead us away from morality, away from God, away from eternal salvation. What would knowing the mechanics of the univers gain us anyway? Such knowledge should be quashed and if I have to mislead to do it, then so be it.
Or is it a competitive thing? I hate to lose but I can't win fairly so I'll do whatever it takes to win. This would be analagous to Karl Rove who by some accounts doesn't give a shit about Conservative ideals but just wants to win, consequences be damned. So maybe some of these guys like to argue, like the public eye, need to make a living, perhaps resent the scientific 'establishment' and really want to stick it to the 'man.' So why not just become a real scientist and make your living that way? Because this way you become high profile fast with minimal work. Is that sloth? Vanity?
The whole thing is unfortunate, really. You have the ignornat, hopeful, faithful masses being bamboozled for any number of reasons by a group of people with ultimately only one thing in common - a disturbing lack of personal integrity. The cynic speaks again: so what else is new? So goes most of the history of organized religion. |
-Chaloobi
|
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2008 : 11:20:43 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by chaloobi
...why the lies? |
Because any endeavor that doesn't glorify Jesus is atheistic, immoral and downright evil. Lying for God is okay so long as the lies bring more people to Christ. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2008 : 12:13:09 [Permalink]
|
I also like creationism because it gives people the opportunity to do things like this:My Prime Directive: say something so ridiculous, so uttlerly Tard-laden, that the moderators would have no choice but to send me down the memory hole. He failed, but that's the fun. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2008 : 14:49:39 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Dave W.
I also like creationism because it gives people the opportunity to do things like this:My Prime Directive: say something so ridiculous, so uttlerly Tard-laden, that the moderators would have no choice but to send me down the memory hole. He failed, but that's the fun.
|
That's a classic. I'm afraid to try the same sockpuppetry myself, as I fear being drawn into the Heart of Tardness by the effects of the Stockholm syndrome.
Notice that as Vincent Edward St. Francis, Mr DNA's psyche was drifting dangerously close to that peril, as witnessed by his writing of himself in the third person: "Again, no dice. Vincent had considered adding a 'Waterloo!' reference, but that would have been too over-the-top. When you're this deep undercover, you've got to be subtle."
|
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2008 : 17:42:36 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Dave W.
I also like creationism because it gives people the opportunity to do things like this:
My Prime Directive: say something so ridiculous, so uttlerly Tard-laden, that the moderators would have no choice but to send me down the memory hole.
He failed, but that's the fun.
|
Excellent, Dave! Made my day....
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
|
BlueCollarScientist
New Member
23 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 10:51:37 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by BlueCollarScientist
My favorite thing about creationism is how they load their minions with literally thirty seconds of talking points, and then send them into the audiences where I'm speaking (almost invariably about astronomy, not biology) to "confront" me with the "evidence" that "science" is a load of baloney. |
Originally posted by HalfMooner
That kind of ambush must be unsettling. How do you handle it?
|
Sometimes it is tiresome - hear the same stuff over and over, and it can get you down. But the only times it has been unsettling is when I've realized that I'm in the same room as a person who believes things that are extremely scary and dangerous.
Most of the time, though, they are so ignorant of what they are talking about, and so obviously crackpots that are just trying to pick a fight, that it is as though they are walking into an airplane propeller. I've even had sympathetic audience members contribute to my debunking efforts.
So it usually isn't as bad as it sounds.
Originally posted by filthy
I just finished checking out your website and found it very good indeed....
Looking forward to your further input! |
Geez - thanks! Your check is in the mail. ;-)
Seriously - I appreciate it. I'm getting a pretty good readership, but they're pretty silent when it comes to comments, and it is good to hear some feedback. But I'm trying to participate here with actual contributions, not just an attempt to promote myself. Just dumped a load of information on Archaeopteryx and Piltdown in a creationists' thread here, so I hope I'm on the right track. |
http://bluecollarscientist.com/ |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 02/20/2008 : 12:11:18 [Permalink]
|
| Seriously - I appreciate it. I'm getting a pretty good readership, but they're pretty silent when it comes to comments, and it is good to hear some feedback. But I'm trying to participate here with actual contributions, not just an attempt to promote myself. Just dumped a load of information on Archaeopteryx and Piltdown in a creationists' thread here, so I hope I'm on the right track. |
Oh yeah, you're right on the money! They love Archaeopteryx and Piltdown. They are also overly fond of Archaeoraptor, which although a fraud, was a valuable find. They can get pretty funny as they try to debunk all of evolutionary science with it.
Let us know how it goes....
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
|
Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
|
 |
|
|
|
The things I like best about Creationism
