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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 02/24/2008 : 10:58:25
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....World's biggest douche-bag.
Eveyrone ready for President McCain?
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 11:36:37 [Permalink]
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Groan. I s'pect Nader's outlived his effectiveness to the GOP.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 11:49:05 [Permalink]
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It's great that he's running. It's amazing to me that people still call themselves Democrats and Republicans after what we've seen over the past few years. It's amazing that those people who call themselves Democrats do not condemn what the Democrats tried to do to Ralph Nader.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS1c5Ei0eIg&feature=related |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 02/24/2008 12:15:37 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 12:31:34 [Permalink]
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| I agree with Halfmooner. Nader barely got 3% of the vote when he was peaking in fringe liberal popularity in 2000, and this included a lot of people who wouldn't have voted for Gore (they wouldn't have voted at all). After 8 years of Bush, the only people left willing to vote Nader will be people who would have abstained from voting otherwise. I'm not scared. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 12:35:18 [Permalink]
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Yeah, well, from the pragmatic point of view all Nader has done is help republicans get elected.
He has no chance to win, all he does is drain votes from the left side of the spectrum. He doesn't even get enough free publicity to promote his issues effectively.
Face it, almost no republicans would ever consider voting for him. The only people who would vote for him are those who would vote for a democrat if he weren't running.
2000 general election, margin of Bush victory in FL is .3%, Nader got 2.7%. No way would the nader votes fall evenly between gop and dem candidates.
The consequence of voting for Nader in 2000 is G.W. Bush as president.
If Nader wants to be president he needs to start planning 4 years in advance. Build a national grass roots movement to create its own base and see if his message resonates on a large scale.
Right now he is nothing but a spoiler and a vote-stealing freeloader. If he runs and McCain wins, and the votes nader gets are equal to or more than the difference between McCain and Obama/Hillary, he will need secret service protection.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 12:51:30 [Permalink]
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Well, Republicans did vote for Nader. If Clinton/Obama can't win an election, why would you blame others who have different agendas who run for election?
Gore won the election. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 13:09:42 [Permalink]
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Don't think it's gonna work this time, Dude. Nadar is thourghly loathed by a lot of Independents, eco-freak Independents including myself, as well as Democrats.
And there is an off-chance that he'll pull votes from the Republican, as McCain is not all that loved in the loonier wing of that mishappened party. They too, could protest vote and just might.
Let the fucker run, sez I, and make an even bigger fool of himself!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 13:16:48 [Permalink]
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Let the fucker run, sez I, and make an even bigger fool of himself!
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You mean, let dishonest Democrats like Eric Alterman attempt to make a fool of him by insulting him and trying to keep him off the ballot. Sure. That's part of the game. I'm not saying I'm voting for him, as I've just about given up on voting, but if you're buying the swill that Eric Alterman sells, you've given up on more than voting. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 13:24:08 [Permalink]
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Gorgo asked:
If Clinton/Obama can't win an election, why would you blame others who have different agendas who run for election?
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Pragmatism. The consequences of Nader being in the 2000 race is 8 years of G.W. as president.
From an ideological view, I fully support Nader and his desire to try and get elected.
The current system of elections, if you hadn't noticed, is rigged against third party candidates. It will remain so until we have rules that require a candidate to obtain a majority of votes (>50%) to win a state, and calls for run-off elections between the two candidates with the highest vote totals from the first round.
I do not want another republican as president. Period.
Ralph Nader voters were almost exclusively liberals in 2000. The Gallup polls showed that only 2% of the people who voted for him were republicans.
Eliminate Nader in 2000, take his 100,000 votes in FL. If you assume that 90% of them would have stayed home instead of voting at all, that means 20 conservatives and 980 liberals voting.
G.W. Bush "won" FL by 537 votes.
FL electoral votes gave Bush the presidency.
Nader being in the race gave Bush the presidency.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 13:48:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
Let the fucker run, sez I, and make an even bigger fool of himself!
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You mean, let dishonest Democrats like Eric Alterman attempt to make a fool of him by insulting him and trying to keep him off the ballot. Sure. That's part of the game. I'm not saying I'm voting for him, as I've just about given up on voting, but if you're buying the swill that Eric Alterman sells, you've given up on more than voting.
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Who is Eric Alterman and why should I care?
I do my own thinking, Gorgo.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 02/24/2008 13:49:13 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 13:57:15 [Permalink]
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http://rationallyspeaking.blogspot.com/2007/07/absolving-nader.html
No, we need to face it. Democrats lost the elections of 2000 and 2004 because of three reasons, any one of which – if overcome – would have made the votes for Nader irrelevant to the outcome: first and foremost, the stupidity of a large portion of the American electorate (I mean, these are the same people who believe that the earth is 6,000 years old); second, the crookedness of the Grand Old Party, which committed all sorts of unethical and possibly illegal actions to rig the election (just as if we were in a fledgling African democracy, not in the self-professed “best democracy in the world”); and, of course, the ineptitude of the Democrats themselves, who should have won by a landslide in both cases, given the political climate and the caliber of their candidates.
So, let's stop bashing Nader, and let us give him all the respect he really deserves. And, please, let us not fuck up a third time in a row, ok? |
http://www.greens.org/s-r/25/25-03.html
Second, Gore never spoke directly to Nader's constituency, addressing their issues. Gore personally tried to ignore or dismiss Nader, but used scare tactics to frighten liberals into voting for him. These tactics partially worked. As many as 5 to 7 million voters who were sympathetic to Nader ended up voting for Gore, or stayed home on election day. But in the end, three million progressives could not find enough reason to support the pro-death penalty, pro-globalization, pro-corporate poster boy of the Democratic Leadership Council.
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 13:58:50 [Permalink]
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I do my own thinking, Gorgo.
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You "loathe" Ralph Nader without hearing anything from Democrats about it? Good for you. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 14:05:01 [Permalink]
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I agree with Massimo on many things, but not this.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 14:12:35 [Permalink]
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| I don't know why anyone thinks Nader had a responsibility to make sure that someone who does not agree with his policies would get elected. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 14:19:27 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
I do my own thinking, Gorgo.
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You "loathe" Ralph Nader without hearing anything from Democrats about it? Good for you.
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No, I loathe Ralph Nadar due to his actions in the last, four is it? Or three?, elections.
He should go back to being an advocate; other sorts of politics don't suit him and I think he's horning in yet again more to stroke his own ego than anything else.
Googled Alterman; turns out I've read him a time or two.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Orwellingly Yurz
SFN Regular
USA
529 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 14:34:04 [Permalink]
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YO! John McCain ain't gonna be the new president, especially due to Ralph tossing in yet again.
Read here, Andy Borowitz's take on Mr. Nader's latest entry...
Nader Announces Plan to Wreck Election
But Prominent Crackpots are Cool to Bid
Appearing on NBC's “Meet the Press” today, consumer activist Ralph Nader told host Tim Russert that he has officially decided to wreck the 2008 presidential election.
Mr. Nader had been huddling with prominent crackpots over the weekend to determine whether he had enough support among his natural constituency, self-absorbed whack-jobs, to mount an entirely meaningless campaign.
“If I wreck the 2008 election, I intend to wreck it in all fifty states,” Mr. Nader told Mr. Russert today. “I have no intention of being merely a regional spoiler.”
When asked if his candidacy could hurt the chances of the first African-American nominee for president, Mr. Nader put his fingers in his ears and started going, “Lalalalalalalala I can't hear you.”
But across the country, significant numbers of crackpots who have supported Mr. Nader in the past appeared to be cool to his latest bid to wreck a presidential election.
“If I'm going to waste my vote, I want to be sure I'm wasting it on the right wingnut,” said longtime crackpot Stacy Klujian, who has supported Rep. Ron Paul (R-Tex) in his 2008 campaign. “It is time for Ralph Nader to step aside for a new generation of bananaheads.”
For his part, Mr. Nader said that he had already begun preparing for his latest run as a spoiler by sneaking up behind people who were watching “No Country for Old Men” and telling them how it ended.
“It wasn't as challenging as spoiling an entire election, but it was fun,” he said.
OY Sez: This was out online before Tim's "Press The Meat" had gone off the air.
OY!
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"The modern conservative...is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy. That is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
--John Kenneth Galbraith
If dogs run free
Then what must be,
Must be...
And that is all
--Bob Dylan
The neo-cons have gotten welfare for themselves down to a fine art.
--me
"The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights."
--J. Paul Getty
"The great thing about Art isn't what it give us, but what we become through it."
--Oscar Wilde
"We have Art in order not to die of life."
--Albert Camus
"I cling like a miser to the freedom I lose when surrounded by an abundance of things."
--Albert Camus
"Experience is the name so many people give to their mistakes."
--Oscar Wilde |
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Ralph Nader...
