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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 03/29/2008 : 16:50:39 [Permalink]
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Or I could be playing along with Wild Bill, using him as a stalking horse, slowly increasing the level of insult to see what your new limits might be? How much does it take to set off Kil this month?
Now that I know....
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2008 : 17:41:19 [Permalink]
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Kil.....
Although your post was directed to Dude, my dulled antennae detect an inferential message directed to innocent me, who was merely trying use what poor defenses he had to deflect unfair and unprovoked attack from an opponent of far greater skill and linguistic resource!.....OK?
Alright, I'm sorry for my behavior. It's just so easy and so much fun to detonate Dude's nitroglycerin temper, that I act almost as foolishly as he, when he starts with the salvos of abusive invective that he uses in place of reasoned argument. Dude is a bright young man of considerable talent and ideation skill, but who suffers from a paucity of anger management skills!
I am way too old to engage in the silly and non-productive kind of discourse that has been going on here for too long, but, give me some credit, I have tried to dampen it down a couple of times in this thread! They didn't work, so I decided to assist him in making a fool of himself. I love your simile "playing him like a harp from Hell" and that pretty much tells it the way it has been. I apologize, you are absolutely correct in your assesment of the situation, and very skillful in directing a post to Dude that successfully chastises me for equivilantly failing to curb my enthusiasm for returning hand grenades for rocks thrown!
I will endeavor to rise above such young-adult play folly in the future and turn the other cheek - which, in my case, usually has involved dropping pants and exposing an aggressive moon!
Dude, in a pretty respectable attempt at recovery given the short time between your post and his response, seems to indicate that the spit-ball session has ended, What his alleged interest in your capacity for tolerance is, I have no idea! However, let me assure you I will not allow his "stalking horse" to become one from Troy! I like "Wild Bill", lots of people call me that. Makes me feel like a callow 30-something, again!
I certainly hope Humbert isn't lurking out there behind a Queen's delicatessan, plotting an assault on my violet verbiage, blindingly boring posts, and annoying alliteration however. A man my age has his limits - in more ways than the obvious!
Pax, Nabisco!
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2008 : 00:04:07 [Permalink]
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bng said:
| They didn't work, so I decided to assist him in making a fool of himself. |
Gee, thanks.
Ever since your departure from reality in this thread several pages ago (you apparently decided the topic was boring or something) I've been slowly decreasing the civility of my responses to you. No offense, but you're fairly predictable, and amusing too. You can't resist an opportunity to sarcastically correct any poor grammar, or even poor style, when you get going (your prolixity and prodigious penchant for pontification(ha!) is often amusing!). You can't restrain yourself from participating in these little contests of brinkmanship either.
At first it was just something to pass the time and be entertained by, and I'd have probably dropped it after a couple of posts, but then you started to engage in a (as marf would call it) "debate style" that Kil has assured me would receive moderator attention. Obviously that attention never materialized, so I just kept egging you on, to see what it would take to bring that moderation to this thread.
The answer is somewhat disappointing.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2008 : 03:05:57 [Permalink]
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Dude.....
| The answer is somewhat disappointing |
I'm dreadfully sorry, Dude, but the man with the tools makes the rules! I'd help you out if I could, but I guess you'll just have to control the potty mouth! I admire the imagination that went into your current post, though!
I asked you four questions specific to the subject on the previous page (14) that you have not answered, and on the same page gave an extensive reply to a number of Dr. Mabuse's questions concerning bomb construction!
I also introduced new material from a highly authoritative source concerning many of the issues we have been discussing, but I have not heard your response to Richard Rhodes' comments.
If this is what you are referring to when you say.....
| since your departure from reality in this thread several pages ago (you apparently decided the topic was boring or something) |
.....I fail to grasp your meaning. My responses to Mabuse were extremely direct and to the point of his comments and questions, and if I was bored with the topic I certainly would not have written two lengthy letters to Frank Barnaby and Richard Rhodes, purchased four books on the subject matter, and read well over a thousand pages of material - outside of the Internet - on nuclear weapon design and construction!
With the exception of this post, page 15 has been a total loss as far as useful content is concerned, but I don't see SFN in the same light as you - a place to pass the time and be entertained by "egging" some one on. Entertainment has certainly happened, both for myself and others here, witness the viewers; but I can say in all honesty that I did not first comment in your thread with the intent to create a combat spectacle!
My impression of your civility in responding to my posts has not changed from the beginning, you seem to insult whenever you cannot find a sensible response! At least, I can't detect what you describe here:| I've been slowly decreasing the civility of my responses to you. |
And if this is true, to what end, Dude?
I really don't post here for sadistic amusement of some sort. I certainly have responded to attack on numerous occasions, but I think Kil's position is correct, this forum ought to be capable of producing better discussion than just vis a vis insult; and I have undertaken to restrain my natural tendency to respond in kind when suddenly attacked!
So, aside from whatever concern you may have for Kil's warning to you, I will not succumb to the temptation to push your very obvious anger buttons any more!
I certainly have enjoyed besting your adolescent cursing, but of much more importance, I have learned more about nuclear weaponry from the references that I have consulted, than I ever knew! I have a good deal more to read, and there are other subjects on the forums of interest to me, so let me congratulate you on authoring a 15 page, 2500+ readers thread, no mean accomplishment, and say goodbye jusqu'à notre prochaine rencontre! |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2008 : 07:55:21 [Permalink]
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Bill, you haven't been interested in the topic of this thread (what threat do jihadists actually pose to civilization) or to the spin off topic (what chance, and how do we know, is there of a nuclear terrorism event) for some time now.
When you started using these sad little straw-man constructs, deliberately distorting what I was saying, I was curious if Kil would follow up on previous claims that he was going to eliminate that sort of open, but not vulgar, hostility from these forums. Sure, your nonsense caused me some genuine irritation, but then I remind myself that you are old and will probably be dead soon... so it doesn't really make me angry.
You will note that Kil didn't decide to plop into this thread until AFTER I called you an incontinent, demented asshole and you launched your (very funny, I might add) invective filled response.
The deliberate distortion of other people's statements or positions is, in my opinion, far worse that a dozen "fuck you"s. It represents a level of intillectual dishonesty that should not be tolerated. When you resort to this kind of thing it indicates you don't have a real argument anyway.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2008 : 08:00:13 [Permalink]
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bng said:
And if this is true, to what end, Dude?
I really don't post here for sadistic amusement of some sort. I certainly have responded to attack on numerous occasions, but I think Kil's position is correct, this forum ought to be capable of producing better discussion than just vis a vis insult; |
Specifically, your use of lies when arguing is more harmful to civil discussion than me telling you to stop eating your own shit. That is the "end" I'm getting at, and Kil assured me in the past that he would make an effort to clean up this sort of thing along with the smeared feces.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2008 : 10:09:57 [Permalink]
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Open Letter to Kil -- Dave Glück
Dave.....
I would appreciate a commentary from you here on the five posts here on page 15 that have appeared after your intercession and warning to Dude. In his last message, he refers to:| I was curious if Kil would follow up on previous claims that he was going to eliminate that sort of open, but not vulgar, hostility from these forums. Sure, your nonsense caused me some genuine irritation, but then I remind myself that you are old and will probably be dead soon... so it doesn't really make me angry. |
I am not concerned with his angry-as-always accusations of lying, dishonesty, etc.; that is standard-issue Dude, but I was not aware of a pledge on your part to all members to "eliminate that sort of open, but not vulgar, hostility from these forums."
If that is the case, then I must apologize again to you with more emphasis for my toying with Dude's hair trigger in this thread. I probably missed your announcement and I am sorry, for I certainly have been guilty of expressing a certain amount of annoyance and sarcasm; and practicing ego manipulation toward and upon both Dude and Dr. Mabuse in this thread!
It had been my earlier impression that obscene and vulgar personal insult was to be eliminated, and, with the exception of Dude that has pretty well been accomplished! As I have admitted, the dishing of sophisticated insult is one of my not-so-secret vices and I have had as much fun playing the "Harp from Hell" as anything I've done recently! Childish!
There is a significant part of me that is still 11 years old and I try to exorcise it from time to time, but I usually end up exercising it instead. However, having managed a few businesses in my life, I fully understand your need for law and order in your forum, so if all responsive insult is to be eliminated, irrespective of degree of sophistication, I will attempt to oblige!
Naturally, sensitivity to initiated insult will need to be perceived and dealt with quickly by moderators in order to allow such a policy to work and be fair.
Please don't forget the box office!
In any event, you would do me and the (apparently) many other readers of this thread a significant service if you would comment on Dude's remarks above and on what I have said here! Thank you!
With concern for a better (but entertaining) Forum,
(Wild) Bill Buck
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| Edited by - bngbuck on 03/30/2008 10:31:39 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
 Posted - 03/30/2008 : 11:26:10 [Permalink]
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For Bill and Dude and everyone else...
First off, while I would like to see a civil forum without any personal insult, I am also realistic. I never pledged or attempted to remove every hint of personal insult or clever taunt. There is a line that shouldn't be crossed, I suppose, but mostly in order to keep SFN as free as possible, what I have asked for is that our members consider what they are posting. I have said over and over again that it is not my intention to treat our members like children (even though they act like children sometimes) and turn SFN into something that it is not.
The trick has been to keep what is good about this forum, where adults can play, and bring it back to some reasonable level of civility at the same time. It's a high wire act. Try it sometime.
It's not as though I do not post with sarcasm and heavy-handed replies at times. I get angry too.
We give you guys a lot of latitude. That is our way. Even my warning here was only to shut down this thread, which had already gone 14 pages, for crying out loud.
I understand that the boundaries are fuzzy. But if we come in with hard and fast rules and eliminate judgment calls, SFN will loose its feel. We will be like a hundred other forums out there with heavy-handed moderation. And we resist that, even though it would probably make our jobs easier. Still, I know when a post has gone over the top or a thread has spiraled out of control and become nothing but a flame war.
Overall, I have been pleased with the tone of the forum of late, so something must have gotten through to you guys.
And Dude, why in the hell would you want to test my limits? Do you find this forum too restrictive? Do you suspect that I don't try to moderate with an even hand? You are still here because most often your posts are artful, insightful and informative. If your posts consisted of mostly insult, (and that has happened in the past) you would be history. If you think back, you will realize that it was Dave who issued the last few warnings to you…
Give me a break…
Edited.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2008 : 22:19:28 [Permalink]
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I'm not talking about insults or taunts, though having your words deliberately distorted certainly counts as both. It is the other aspect, the destruction of civil discussion that results, that I take issue with. It is more openly aggressive and uncivil, imo, than sitting back and trading profanity.
Correct me if I'm wrong Kil, but you have said in the past that you were going to tolerate less of that crap on the SFN.
So what is it going to be? I mean, I can engage in that style of "debate" (as marfknox calls it) all day long. We can rename the place to the "Straw-man Friendly Network!"
Bill... settle down, take your meds, relax. Kil isn't going to eliminate all insulting responses from the SFN. If he wants to reduce profanity though, he needs to reduce the type of bullshit you have been dropping into this thread, specifically your (and others) deliberate distortion of statements made by other forum members.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2008 : 12:55:41 [Permalink]
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Dude.....
| Bill... settle down, take your meds, relax. Kil isn't going to eliminate all insulting responses from the SFN. If he wants to reduce profanity though, he needs to reduce the type of bullshit you have been dropping into this thread, specifically your (and others) deliberate distortion of statements made by other forum members |
Dude, if you can preserve my rights here to deconstruct the spontaneous bonnyclabber that you frequently pullulate and then proceed to eruct as informed opinion, you would do a slowly "dying" old man a true kindness. One of the few pleasures that remain to me in my senescence; besides writing, travel, gourmandizing, buying expensive toys, imbibing treasures of the vinyards, and just general hedonism; is confuting uninformed assumption presented as verity by young turks such as you!
If you would present a calm, reasoned presentation of three or four examples of what you perceive as my distortions of your opinions, showing clearly the "deliberate misrepresentation" in which you allege I have engaged; and following that, specific demonstration of where I have "lied" in my responses or comments to you in this thread, I will be happy to respond to this accusation. As of right now, I have no idea what you are talking about. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2008 : 17:28:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
I'm not talking about insults or taunts, though having your words deliberately distorted certainly counts as both. It is the other aspect, the destruction of civil discussion that results, that I take issue with. It is more openly aggressive and uncivil, imo, than sitting back and trading profanity.
Correct me if I'm wrong Kil, but you have said in the past that you were going to tolerate less of that crap on the SFN.
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I never said that we would moderate for logical fallacies.
It seems to me that if you think someone has purposely misrepresented what you have said, it is up to you (or whoever catches it) to point it out. We can't be moderating for strawmen fallacies, real or perceived. For one thing, there is the question of intent.
If you feel that you have had your words twisted to mean something that you never intended, or have had your words completely made up, feel free to call the offender on it. I have no problem with that. However, you might want to think on the best way to go about doing that before you post…
If civility is impossible, given the situation, notify a moderator…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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JohnOAS
SFN Regular
Australia
800 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2008 : 04:10:59 [Permalink]
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This might get in just before the topic gets locked, be it for length or civility.
It may now be a moot point, but a while back Halfmooner asked about field detection of radioactive materials. Here we go:
Homeland Security Adds On-the-Go Radioactive Hunter to Garage
I originally found this article via this engadget post.
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John's just this guy, you know. |
| Edited by - JohnOAS on 04/03/2008 04:11:51 |
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"Muslim jihadists"
