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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 02/27/2008 : 22:04:56 [Permalink]
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You have still failed to adequately explain how "muslim jihadists" are a threat to civilization.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2008 : 23:03:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Pelayo
10/9/2002 - Manassas, VA Muslim sniper kills 53-year-old man. (This is the only entry I'll make referencing the DC Sniper.) To deny that these were religiously motivated crimes is to deny reality - in my opinion. |
Show me one reference to a legitimate authority that has come to the same conclusion. I have never heard anyone claim that the Beltway Sniper was religiously motivated. But please, enlighten me.
It seems to me, Pelayo, that instead of crimes done in the name of Islamic terrorism, you've simply decided to list crimes done by Muslims--just as those who consider illegal immigration to be "the greater threat evah" list crimes done by Mexicans and Spanish prompts on ATMs as "evidence" for that problem. In your list of grievances, you lumped an Islamic mosque's call to prayer in with other examples of crimes and terrorism.
Sorry, but your xenophobic fear of brown skin is not evidence of a threat to Western civilization.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 02/27/2008 23:05:36 |
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Pelayo
Skeptic Friend
USA
70 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 00:27:27 [Permalink]
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Dude, the basic tenets of Islam are to spread the religion, by force if necessary. The current resurgence of Islam is financed by oil revenues and helped along by massive immigration.
Islam brings, not just a religion, but regulatory requirements that govern everything from eating to defecating. It also has the component called Sharia code of laws that governs civil and criminal conduct. Islam and Sharia are practiced now just as practiced 1200 years ago. There has not been a Islamic Reformation.
As to the threat, I could post a link to any speech by Mahmoud Amadinijad, but this will suffice:
This is the first of a multi-part video of an Ayn Rand supported symposium.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX0QUvORmp8&feature=related
I don't know the religious affiliation of Daniel Pipes and Yaron Brook, but I do know that Wafa Sultan has abandoned all religion. If you really want to understand the problem, watch some of them, or you can put your head back in the sand.
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I have a habit of posting without reading all previous comments, if I am repeating someone, well, excuse me, please.
"No tendency is quite so strong in human nature as the desire to lay down rules of conduct for other people." - William Howard Taft
"God ran out of new souls a long time ago and has been recycling jackasses." - Anon |
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Pelayo
Skeptic Friend
USA
70 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 00:33:51 [Permalink]
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Mr Humbert, Islam is not a race.
When I posted the article about the St Louis mosque, I should have left out the "One More" intro.
I meant it as a separate item. |
I have a habit of posting without reading all previous comments, if I am repeating someone, well, excuse me, please.
"No tendency is quite so strong in human nature as the desire to lay down rules of conduct for other people." - William Howard Taft
"God ran out of new souls a long time ago and has been recycling jackasses." - Anon |
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Pelayo
Skeptic Friend
USA
70 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 07:19:15 [Permalink]
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Humbert, I listed those incidents for what they are, crimes perpetrated in the name of or influenced by religion. They do not fit law enforcement's narrow definition of terrorism. As far as linking Malvo's religious motivations, he has been linked to a shooting at a Tacoma, Washington synagogue.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9903E5DE133FF933A05753C1A9649C8B63
If you had known that my WASP daughter was married to a fellow whose parents were immigrants from Bombay (Mumbai),India, you might have withheld that cheap "xenophobe" insult, or maybe not.
Without further investigation, we do not know whether the fires at those abortion clinics are motivated by religious zealotry, insurance fraud, or some other reason. You jump to your conclusions; I'll jump to mine. |
I have a habit of posting without reading all previous comments, if I am repeating someone, well, excuse me, please.
"No tendency is quite so strong in human nature as the desire to lay down rules of conduct for other people." - William Howard Taft
"God ran out of new souls a long time ago and has been recycling jackasses." - Anon |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 08:10:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Pelayo
You jump to your conclusions; I'll jump to mine. |
Ah, a classic tu quoque. Damn, those are tasty. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Pelayo
Skeptic Friend
USA
70 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 09:46:25 [Permalink]
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| I prefer a classic tu quoque, the newer ones are made from soy meal. |
I have a habit of posting without reading all previous comments, if I am repeating someone, well, excuse me, please.
"No tendency is quite so strong in human nature as the desire to lay down rules of conduct for other people." - William Howard Taft
"God ran out of new souls a long time ago and has been recycling jackasses." - Anon |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 10:27:44 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Pelayo
Mr Humbert, Islam is not a race. |
Yes, I know. I didn't call you a racist, but curious how you immediately leapt to that defense. Find yourself battling that accusation often, do you?
| When I posted the article about the St Louis mosque, I should have left out the "One More" intro. I meant it as a separate item. |
Yes, but an item meant to demonstrate what, exactly? That you'll tolerate church bells but find public Islamic calls to prayer outrageous?
| Humbert, I listed those incidents for what they are, crimes perpetrated in the name of or influenced by religion. They do not fit law enforcement's narrow definition of terrorism. |
So in your opinion, even law enforcement officials are too lenient on Muslims and on what to consider Islamic terrorism. This despite a justice department eager to make high-profile arrests in the war on terror.
Ok, first of all, that article was about a woman shot in her home. In that entire two-page article, there is a single throw away line about Malvo being a suspect in a Synagogue shooting without casualties:
"...the Tacoma police identified Mr. Muhammad and Mr. Malvo as chief suspects in the Cook killing and in a shooting in early May at a synagogue here in which no one was hurt."
As evidence for Malvo's supposed glaringly apparent religious motivations, this is beyond weak. Certainly not even close to justifying your comment: "To deny that these were religiously motivated crimes is to deny reality." So again, I'll ask you, show me one legitimate authority that has come to the conclusion that Malvo's crimes were primarily religiously motivated.
| If you had known that my WASP daughter was married to a fellow whose parents were immigrants from Bombay (Mumbai),India, you might have withheld that cheap "xenophobe" insult, or maybe not. |
I fail to see what your daughter's actions say about your beliefs. For all I know, you may have disapproved of the marriage. In any case, the charge of xenophobia was based on statements you have made here. So no, that tidbit of external information doesn't really change what's already been said by you.
| Without further investigation, we do not know whether the fires at those abortion clinics are motivated by religious zealotry, insurance fraud, or some other reason. You jump to your conclusions; I'll jump to mine. |
Ah, so you do at least admit to jumping to conclusions. That's a start, anyway.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 02/28/2008 10:28:33 |
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Pelayo
Skeptic Friend
USA
70 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 10:52:09 [Permalink]
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| Humbert said: "your xenophobic fear of brown skin" Just what does that mean? |
I have a habit of posting without reading all previous comments, if I am repeating someone, well, excuse me, please.
"No tendency is quite so strong in human nature as the desire to lay down rules of conduct for other people." - William Howard Taft
"God ran out of new souls a long time ago and has been recycling jackasses." - Anon |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 11:14:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Pelayo
Humbert said: "your xenophobic fear of brown skin" Just what does that mean?
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Ok, you're right there. That crack was probably over the line. I feel that you have expressed an aversion to culturally integrating with Muslims, and equate the West's tolerance of Islam with the destruction of Western identity.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 02/28/2008 11:15:26 |
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Pelayo
Skeptic Friend
USA
70 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 11:15:17 [Permalink]
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Now you can criticize Michelle Malkin -
http://www.vdare.com/malkin/malvo_muslim.htm
Since all of the exhibits at the Fairfax County website have been taken down, this is probably not enough. |
I have a habit of posting without reading all previous comments, if I am repeating someone, well, excuse me, please.
"No tendency is quite so strong in human nature as the desire to lay down rules of conduct for other people." - William Howard Taft
"God ran out of new souls a long time ago and has been recycling jackasses." - Anon |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 11:20:04 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Pelayo
Now you can criticize Michelle Malkin - |
I said a credible source. Shrill hate-mongers who make a living by creating boogeymen for conservatives to fear do not qualify. (This includes Rush, Coulter, O'Reilly, et al.)
What about the psychiatrists who examined Malvo before he stood trial? What about the lawyers for the prosecution? What about the actual facts of the case as they surfaced during Malvo's hearing? Don't hand me right wing speculation and expect me to take it seriously.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Pelayo
Skeptic Friend
USA
70 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 11:54:49 [Permalink]
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HH, Does Investors Business Daily meet you criteria?
thttp://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=277510023350955
There is one exhibit imbedded in the article. Did some looney rightwingers fabricate this?
Michelle Malkin referenced the actual trial exhibits by number.
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I have a habit of posting without reading all previous comments, if I am repeating someone, well, excuse me, please.
"No tendency is quite so strong in human nature as the desire to lay down rules of conduct for other people." - William Howard Taft
"God ran out of new souls a long time ago and has been recycling jackasses." - Anon |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 12:08:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Pelayo
Michelle Malkin referenced the actual trial exhibits by number. |
The funny thing is that they're all "jailhouse artwork," meaning they were created only after the sniping was done with. Not particularly compelling evidence of his mindset at the time of the shootings. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 12:25:07 [Permalink]
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I've never heard of them, but that in itself isn't a condemnation. More troubling, there isn't an attribution for that article, so I can't judge the bias of the author. However, the article's tone suggests that it has a deeply embedded agenda:
| Now the network [CNN] has completely scrubbed Islam from the picture, offering child abuse (boo-hoo) and spousal revenge as alternative motives for the snipers' bloody rampage. |
The author waves away the trauma of child abuse with a "boo-hoo?" And you consider this serious, unbiased reporting? The entire slant of the article is based on the idea that CNN led some liberal media "cover-up" to whitewash any connection to Islam. And you had the nerve to call me a conspiracy theorist earlier?
| There is one exhibit imbedded in the article. Did some looney rightwingers fabricate this? |
Again, if this was compelling evidence of a Islamic terrorism connection, why didn't prosecuting lawyers successfully pursue this angle? Are they part of a "PC" cover-up as well?
Ask yourself why the state didn't try this woman on religious terrorism charges, since clearly her murders were motivated by Christianity. Or could it be that prosecutors don't have an agenda, and so refuse to latch onto the easy scapegoat of religion as you and Malkin have done?
| Michelle Malkin referenced the actual trial exhibits by number. |
Right, but it's her conclusions which are questionable, since they don't seem to be shared by the majority of experts.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 02/28/2008 12:33:52 |
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"Muslim jihadists"
