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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 03/08/2008 : 14:26:16
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A lot of people are gonna hate this:
(03-07) 04:00 PST LOS ANGELES --
A California appeals court ruling clamping down on homeschooling by parents without teaching credentials sent shock waves across the state this week, leaving an estimated 166,000 children as possible truants and their parents at risk of prosecution.
The homeschooling movement never saw the case coming.
"At first, there was a sense of, 'No way,' " said home school parent Loren Mavromati, a resident of Redondo Beach (Los Angeles County) who is active with a home school association. "Then there was a little bit of fear. I think it has moved now into indignation."
The ruling arose from a child welfare dispute between the Los Angeles County Department of Children and Family Services and Philip and Mary Long of Lynwood, who have been homeschooling their eight children. Mary Long is their teacher, but holds no teaching credential.
The parents said they also enrolled their children in Sunland Christian School, a private religious academy in Sylmar (Los Angeles County), which considers the Long children part of its independent study program and visits the home about four times a year.
The Second District Court of Appeal ruled that California law requires parents to send their children to full-time public or private schools or have them taught by credentialed tutors at home.
Some home schoolers are affiliated with private or charter schools, like the Longs, but others fly under the radar completely. Many homeschooling families avoid truancy laws by registering with the state as a private school and then enroll only their own children.
Teachers should be qualified before they teach..... Fancy that! But there is a chance that it might help them to understand this:
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, March 7, 2008; Page A03
Visitors to the Grand Canyon always want to know: How old is it?
Park rangers are instructed to tell them that the canyon has been carved by the Colorado River for the past 5 or 6 million years. The park's Web site, under Frequently Asked Questions, notes that the rocks exposed by the canyon are up to 2 billion years old, and then adds: "The Canyon itself -- an erosional feature -- has formed only in the past five or six million years. Geologically speaking, Grand Canyon is very young."
That might need revision. The canyon is more like 17 million years old, according to a study published today in the journal Science.
And the Colorado River may not be the only river involved in its formation. The study contends that a smaller river cut the older, western part of the canyon. Gradually the canyon formed from west to east on westward-flowing river. Then something happened about 5 or 6 million years ago -- what, exactly, is unclear -- to accelerate dramatically the rate of the canyon-carving.
But not to worry, AiG has The Ditch situation well in hand, and the Hobbits as well. Scroll down to the second article.... or better yet, read the whole thing. there's lots of fascinating tripe in there.
I'm waiting for them to comment on the first article. I'm not sure that they will.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2008 : 19:42:45 [Permalink]
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It's been several years since Virginia passed a law required homeschooling parents to at least possess a bachelor's degree.
I don't recall any uproar, but I wasn't paying much attention. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2008 : 20:14:00 [Permalink]
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AiG has the Hobbit well in hand indeed, Filthy: The Bible does not use the word “species.” It is a word in the scientific vocabulary that does not adequately describe life as God created it. The word “species” has a very different meaning from the Genesis word “kind.” Regarding humans, God created one man, Adam. From Adam, God created Eve. From this pair, all humans have descended—mankind or humankind. Paul states: “From one man he [God] made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth ...” (Acts 17:26).
The fact that Falk and her team, using a humanistic philosophy, call the hobbits “another species of Homo” is meaningless. Evolutionists cannot prove that the hobbits were unable to reproduce with Homo sapiens, and interfertility is the basis for true biological relationships according to the Bible. Whether or not the hobbits were pathological or geographically isolated does not make them any less human. God made only one kind of human. |
So, instead of "kinds" or "baramin" being totally useless Bronze Age mythological terms that have no value or use in the real world or in science, the wingnuts simply call "species" useless for Biblical purposes.
Now, that's "framing."
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 03/08/2008 20:14:55 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2008 : 05:15:10 [Permalink]
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In fact, I stumbled across these articles while looking for the latest on H. floresiensis. Apparently, there isn't much aside from the ravings of such intellectual Luddites as Harun Yahya. | "The game played by evolutionists by interpreting variations in ancient bones according to their own preconceptions consists of window-dressing scenarios of human evolution in any way they choose. It needs to be realized that telling fairy tales based on the similarity of bones is a pointless activity in the face of the true facts." |
It is remarkable to me, really, that these people, who have never fielded a research team nor even been so much as a grad-student gopher on one, nor have even seen the fossils beyond a few photographs -- hell, make that any hominid fossil -- can attempt to assume so much authority. It takes a lot of damned gall, if you ask me.
They are really hung up on that 'fairy tale' foolishness, aren't they? That always gives me a chuckle because as fairy tales go, well, I really don't see where they have any wriggle-room at all.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2008 : 09:54:28 [Permalink]
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More bad news in the education scene.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 03/09/2008 : 11:17:52 [Permalink]
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The school would be required to reward the student with a good grade, or be considered in violation of the law. Even simple, factual information such as the age of the earth (4.65 billion years) would be subject to the student's belief, and if the student answered 6,000 years based on his or her religious belief, the school would have to credit it as correct. Science education becomes absurd under such a situation.
If a student chose to take his opportunity to speak to a group of students in a school-sanctioned assembly to tell them they must accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior or go to hell, then that student would have a right to do so, according to this bill. Especially, but not only if the student held a position of honor and authority (class officer, team captain), and was speaking in his or her official capacity, the school has clearly established religion in violation of both the U.S. and Oklahoma constitutions.
The same would be true if the student chose to tell the assembled students that they would not go to hell, that there is no hell and that those who promote belief in hell are liars. What if a Wican student chose to tell the assembled students that the only true God is Nature, or a member of a radical religious sect advocated assassination in order to preserve God's will? According to this bill, those students would be free, in a forum supported by the school, to do so. Any or all of these scenarios would lead to lawsuits |
I dunno... Might not this be a sort of 'too much of a good thing' in reverse? As the article states, this sort of a bill created havoc in TX and it will surely do the same in OK. But then, I suppose, if the results of the Dover, PA trial blew by them there seems little that might convince them that the fundie adgenda is a crock of shit that will doom the education of their children to remedial courses in college, if they can get into a college other than the ilk of Patriot U. Not to mention the lawsuits that will inevitably result.
In due course, this just might come back to haunt them. May the haunting begin before too much damage is done...
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2008 : 13:32:52 [Permalink]
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If a student's religious beliefs were in conflict with scientific theory, and the student chose to express those beliefs rather than explain the theory in response to an exam question, the student's incorrect response would be deemed satisfactory, according to this bill.
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This is much worse than even the Dover attempt to insert ID. This would utterly kill scientific, or any other kind, of education. A student need only state "Goddidit" to answer any question. And them be rewarded with a passing grade, and ultimately become a problem for some university or more generally for a society in intellectual decline.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 03/09/2008 13:33:45 |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2008 : 17:53:23 [Permalink]
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So, "what is the theory of evolution?" would turn into "what do scientists think the theory of evolution is?"
Any student who answers with his own religious beliefs, gets failed and whose parents complain could get the response, "I wasn't asking about the student's beliefs, I was asking the student to simply regurgitate what the scientists think, which is something I taught in class, and so your kid ought to know it."
Think it'd fly, Ricky? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2008 : 18:26:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
So, "what is the theory of evolution?" would turn into "what do scientists think the theory of evolution is?"
Any student who answers with his own religious beliefs, gets failed and whose parents complain could get the response, "I wasn't asking about the student's beliefs, I was asking the student to simply regurgitate what the scientists think, which is something I taught in class, and so your kid ought to know it."
Think it'd fly, Ricky?
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To expect every teacher to have to rephrase each question like that would be an enormous and counter-productive burden. Imagine a geography teacher having to ask, "What's the earth's diameter, according to modern, spherical-earth geographic theory?" Much simpler to leave out everything after the first comma, on the assumption that schools are for teaching the best current understandings of our universe.
Teachers are harassed enough as it is, trying to squeeze real information into their lessons, without needlessly having to weasel-word everything.
Having to do things that way would also introduce doubts into naive students' minds, even in subjects where there is no real controversy. But that's one of the intentions of the legislation, I suppose.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 03/09/2008 18:28:16 |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2008 : 09:45:19 [Permalink]
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Both The Bad Astronomer and ERV have mentioned this as well.
Also, both made note of how this legislator hates homosexuals like crazy.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2008 : 10:13:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
If a student's religious beliefs were in conflict with scientific theory, and the student chose to express those beliefs rather than explain the theory in response to an exam question, the student's incorrect response would be deemed satisfactory, according to this bill.
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This is much worse than even the Dover attempt to insert ID. This would utterly kill scientific, or any other kind, of education. A student need only state "Goddidit" to answer any question. And them be rewarded with a passing grade, and ultimately become a problem for some university or more generally for a society in intellectual decline.
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Let it pass! It would take all of about 2 picoseconds for students to put "God did it" on all their answers, and then this "law" would be eradicated immediately and make the backers look even more idiotic to the fence-sitters.
(my plan would probably backfire though) |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2008 : 11:24:31 [Permalink]
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I have big issues with this ruling. I dont have children though if I did I would prefer to homeschool them. The credentials should not matter if the children are learning, if these children are subjected to the same semi-annual testing that the schooled kids were there would be no problem. If it is shown that they fail these tests, then I can see forcing another teaching route.
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"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2008 : 11:51:59 [Permalink]
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| As for the big-ditch, thats a minor issue. Not nearly as bad as the creationist literature in the giftshop, unless they are using the 5-6 million number to pretend that one God day = 1 million years. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2008 : 13:03:13 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
As for the big-ditch, thats a minor issue. Not nearly as bad as the creationist literature in the gift shop, unless they are using the 5-6 million number to pretend that one God day = 1 million years.
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No no, the Creationists aren't having that. It's 6 (count 'em: SIX) twenty four hours days as stated in the Bible. On the seventh, God kicked back with a couple of six-packs and a blunt to watch the game.
Now, the Creationists are strictly in support of Equal Opportunity. They want everyone to have the chance to be as unfunny a buffoon as they, thus the blatant stupidity sold in a National Park gift shop -- and doesn't the Constitution have something to say about the state being separate from religious lies? Wouldn't it apply here? Seems I read something about that a while back....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Teaching credentials & the Big Ditch
