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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 04/04/2008 : 02:28:36
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Amazing, amazing! And this goober actually has a Doctorate in Astronomy! It's enough to make one question post graduate, academic standards.
"The Question of Extraterrestrial Life
The distinctiveness of the earth dovetails with a question that people often ask: “Are there extraterrestrial life-forms out there?” The question of life from other planets is a hot topic in our culture today. Science fiction movies and television shows often depict strange creatures from faraway planets, but these ideas are not limited merely to science fiction programming. Many secular scientists believe that one day we will actually discover life on other planets. There are even programs like SETI (the Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence) that scan the heavens with powerful radio telescopes “listening” for signals from intelligent aliens. Unfortunately, many Christians have bought into the idea of extraterrestrial “alien” life without critically assessing such a belief in light of Scripture.
The idea of extraterrestrial life stems largely from a belief in evolutionism. Recall that in the evolution view, the earth is “just another planet”—one where the conditions just happened to be right for life to form and evolve. If there are countless billions of other planets in our galaxy, then surely at least a handful of these worlds have also had the right conditions. Extraterrestrial life is almost inevitable in an evolutionary worldview.
However, the notion of alien life does not square well with Scripture. As previously discussed, the earth is unique. It is the earth that was designed for life (Isaiah 45:18), not the heavens. The other planets have an entirely different purpose than does the earth, and thus they are designed differently. In Genesis 1, we read that God created plants on the earth on day 3, birds to fly in the atmosphere and marine life to swim in the ocean on day 5, and animals to inhabit the land on day 6. Human beings are also made on day 6 and are given dominion over the animals, but where does the Bible discuss the creation of life on the “lights in the expanse of the heavens?” There is no such description, because the lights in the expanse were not designed to accommodate life. God gave care of the earth to man, but the heavens are the Lord's (Psalms 115:16). From a biblical perspective, extraterrestrial life does not seem reasonable."
I spilled this bucket of tripe into the Psuedoscience Folder for a reason. The jackass who wrote it claims to be a scientist and has a sheepskin verifying that he at least did better than merely attending class, but if he does any actual science these days, it is not evident.
This screed falls comfortably in with the rest of the psuedo-scientific blather so common today, promotions for the Creation Museum, the Q-Ray bracelet, and the contraption that Thane Whatsisface is playing with being some examples.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2008 : 04:56:15 [Permalink]
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He had a rather well reasoned argument when discussing "What about UFOs". That is until the last paragraph.
Remember that we always interpret evidence in light of our worldview. It is therefore crucial to have a correct, biblical worldview. The fallacious worldview of atheism/naturalism may lead someone to draw erroneous conclusions about what they see. From a biblical worldview, we expect to occasionally see things that are not easily explained, since our minds are finite, but UFOs are not alien spacecraft, and of course there is no tangible evidence to support such a notion.
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Though I agreed with his first sentence I don't believe that he really understands his own insights. Not for 1 second does he doubt his own worldview or its potential for erroneous conclusions. For him science starts with his conclusion, biblical worldview. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2008 : 04:59:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
I spilled this bucket of tripe into the Psuedoscience Folder for a reason. |
Thanks!  |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2008 : 05:21:48 [Permalink]
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Eh. This isn't the first example of someone in science willing to put the science on the shelf when preaching to believers (in exchange for a paycheck).
His dissertation is on solar supergranulation. I read through it, but he never mentioned anything about the sun being created by Yahweh on like the fourth day.
According to his bio, "His areas of interest in creation studies are in developing models of cosmology and stellar aging." I didn't read anything in his dissertation about the sun being ca. 6000 year old, either.
My guess is that this guy's days of publishing in "secular" journals are over, and he can now freely focus on quoting scripture to show why we haven't encountered alien life. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 04/04/2008 : 05:25:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by filthy
I spilled this bucket of tripe into the Psuedoscience Folder for a reason. |
Thanks!
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My pleasure... 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2008 : 05:39:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Eh. This isn't the first example of someone in science willing to put the science on the shelf when preaching to believers (in exchange for a paycheck).
His dissertation is on solar supergranulation. I read through it, but he never mentioned anything about the sun being created by Yahweh on like the fourth day.
According to his bio, "His areas of interest in creation studies are in developing models of cosmology and stellar aging." I didn't read anything in his dissertation about the sun being ca. 6000 year old, either.
My guess is that this guy's days of publishing in "secular" journals are over, and he can now freely focus on quoting scripture to show why we haven't encountered alien life.
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You are undoubtably correct. Lisle is following in the hole-in-the-shoe footsteps of the likes of Sarfati & Wells, among others.
As to finding alien life, hey, we haven't even begun to look yet. As vast an area as SETI covers, that area is less than microscopic against the vastness of the Cosmos. And SETI really hasn't been running all that long.
Wouldn't a Martian Microbe be a neat discovery? The only thing I'd rather find than that is the Devonian Bunny!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2008 : 06:00:28 [Permalink]
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Lisle is a crackpot. He has a legit PhD (from the University of Colorado), but has has turned into a complete nut.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2008 : 06:51:38 [Permalink]
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Lisle's thesis was published in 2004.
So far as I'm able to Google, all his other secular articles were published before then. I also cannot find a cirriculum vitae for him online, or anyplace where he lists his publications.
What a waste. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2008 : 06:54:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
Lisle is a crackpot. He has a legit PhD (from the University of Colorado), but has has turned into a complete nut.
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A crackpot indeed and one that fits into AiG like a dung beetle in a horse turd, but let's not sell him short. He is a crackypot-nutball with a wide, indeed, world-wide if AiG is to be taken at their word, audience of folks who should know better but don't, and have no intention of learning.
He writes quite well enough to not only keep the faithful in line, but interested. Hell, even I enjoy reading him (but then, I like a little fantasy now & again). That alone gives him a formidable presence because the numbers of the believers continue to increase, albeit some percentage is casual about it (CINOs?). Write something well enough, and as sure as a 'gator's tail has hickies, it will be widely accepted by the lazely ignorant. And they too, vote. And run for school boards. And donate to politicions.
'Hitler' has been over-worked lately, but as I recall, it was he or one of his senior minions who said to the effect that if you tell a lie long enough & loud enough & often enough, it will be accepted as truth. AiG and their ilk have learned this lesson well.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2008 : 07:56:51 [Permalink]
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Filthy.....
Filth, do you (or does anyone else here) have a good handle on how many of these certified AiG imbeciles, and their ilk, there are in their Movement? I mean an estimate of the population of sub-morons that really subscribe to this incredible bullshit?
I'm making some notes on this aspect of Perception (the Perception of Impossible Theology), and I would like to use approximate figures of the number of fundamentalist True Believers that live and breathe - and believe - every word of the crap that manipulators like Behe and Ham and Lisle constantly shovel into their hungry craws. Are there any kind of dependable statistics available on the Net?
It almost beggars comprehension that there can be people like Lisle working in legitimate scientific disciplines, and with respectable academic credentials; that swallow, digest, and then continuously extravasate back this kind of fecal fantasy, as professional scientists! Would but that there was a God to help us!
Anyway, where can I go for a good guess as to the number of these bemused boeotians that there may be in our poor, suffering country? |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2008 : 08:29:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Filthy.....
Filth, do you (or does anyone else here) have a good handle on how many of these certified AiG imbeciles, and their ilk, there are in their Movement? I mean an estimate of the population of sub-morons that really subscribe to this incredible bullshit?
I'm making some notes on this aspect of Perception (the Perception of Impossible Theology), and I would like to use approximate figures of the number of fundamentalist True Believers that live and breathe - and believe - every word of the crap that manipulators like Behe and Ham and Lisle constantly shovel into their hungry craws. Are there any kind of dependable statistics available on the Net?
It almost beggars comprehension that there can be people like Lisle working in legitimate scientific disciplines, and with respectable academic credentials; that swallow, digest, and then continuously extravasate back this kind of fecal fantasy, as professional scientists! Would but that there was a God to help us!
Anyway, where can I go for a good guess as to the number of these bemused boeotians that there may be in our poor, suffering country?
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I honestly don't know and am not sure how to find out. There's little point in asking AiG or any of the YEC organizations because, well, how can you trust their answers?
Anyway, here's a site that might help a bit on other aspects of your study. It's John Stear's place and it's quite large. I visit often and occasionally reference it.
Lemmee look around a little.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2008 : 08:53:38 [Permalink]
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Google is Lord and I am Goog's Prophet..... 
Alas, like all prophets, I'm not very good at it but looking about, I quickly found this:
"Number of adherents of world religions:
According to David Barrett et al, editors of the "World Christian Encyclopedia: A comparative survey of churches and religions - AD 30 to 2200," there are 19 major world religions which are subdivided into a total of 270 large religious groups, and many smaller ones. 34,000 separate Christian groups have been identified in the world. "Over half of them are independent churches that are not interested in linking with the big denominations." 13 Most people in the world follow one of the religions listed in the table below. Included is the name of the religion, the approximate date of its origin, its main sacred or ethical texts (if any) and its estimated numerical strength (both in absolute numbers and as a percentage of the world's population.)
These data are based on census or public opinion data.1Thus, a person is considered to be of a particular religion if they say that they are of that faith. Thus, about 75% of the adults in both the U.S. and Canada are Christians. Many individuals and religious groups have much more strict definitions for membership. Many conservative Christians believe that one has to be "born again" in order to be counted as a Christian. Using this definition, only about 35% of Americans would be counted as Christians. This difference in definitions between conservative Christians and the rest of the population causes much confusion. Some of the approximately 1,000 Christian faith groups in the U.S. and Canada believe themselves to be the only true Christian denomination. Thus, depending on the definition used, the percentage of Christians in the U.S. are between 0.1 and 75% of the total population."
I'm not sure it is possible to get an actual number; indeed it probably isn't. But this looks to me like it will help form a guesstimate. And there are lots of links buried within that I haven't opened, yet.
Good luck with it and if I happen across any more, I'll pass it along.
May the blessings of Goog be upon you and all who would be seekers of wisdom....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2008 : 09:45:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Filthy.....
Filth, do you (or does anyone else here) have a good handle on how many of these certified AiG imbeciles, and their ilk, there are in their Movement? I mean an estimate of the population of sub-morons that really subscribe to this incredible bullshit?
I'm making some notes on this aspect of Perception (the Perception of Impossible Theology), and I would like to use approximate figures of the number of fundamentalist True Believers that live and breathe - and believe - every word of the crap that manipulators like Behe and Ham and Lisle constantly shovel into their hungry craws. Are there any kind of dependable statistics available on the Net?
It almost beggars comprehension that there can be people like Lisle working in legitimate scientific disciplines, and with respectable academic credentials; that swallow, digest, and then continuously extravasate back this kind of fecal fantasy, as professional scientists! Would but that there was a God to help us!
Anyway, where can I go for a good guess as to the number of these bemused boeotians that there may be in our poor, suffering country?
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If I may, Bill…
I doubt that the numbers are large among scientists. In fact, I'm sure they are not. Whatever success these "scientists" have had seems to be in their ability to attract large numbers of churchy fundamentalists who eat up what they are selling. They are usually pretty good in the PR department and know how to target their message to the greatest advantage, from their point of view.
We know for example that groups like the Institute for Creation Research calls itself a ministry. While targeting science that they literally can't agree with, or the biblical account of genesis fails, at the same time they do everything they can to give the appearance of scientific credibility. But they don't speak to scientists. They speak to church groups. They only mix with actual scientists for debate, most often at a church.
A quick look at their online resource section is kind of reveling, if you happen to be looking for a good scientific read.
ICR scientists have produced many insightful tracts concerning creation science and biblical truth. Listed here is a selection of some of our most popular tracts to date.
Booklets by Henry M. Morris, PhD:
0. The Amazing Prophetic Claims of the Lord Jesus Christ
0. The Bible Is a Textbook of Science
0. Christ Our Life
0. Creation and Its Critics
0. A Creationist's Defense of the King James Bible
0. His Son's Name
0. The Gifts of God
0. God's Only Begotten Son
0. Impact of the Empty Tomb
0. The Resurrection Of Christ
0. The Scientific Case Against Evolution
0. When They Saw the Star
Booklets by other authors:
0. Creation & Composition: The Apollo Mission - by Duane T. Gish, Ph.D.
Smile... The Future's On Its Way - by C.J. Horn |
But more to the point. A look over at the Religious Tolerance Site might be helpful in your quest. See: Public beliefs about evolution and creation. This may be exactly what you are looking for.
The polls, done by the Gallup organization, among others, are both reveling and scary.
Hope this helps.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2008 : 17:19:46 [Permalink]
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Filthy & Kil.....
Thanks for the reference material. Very helpful!
Interesting statistics!
On being a Creationist
Men............................8% less than the average American
Women........................6% more than the average
College Graduates........22% less than the average
High School Dropouts....18% more than the average
Income $50k+..............18% less than the average
Income $50k-..............12% more than the average
Caucasian....................1% less than the average
Blacks.........................6% more than the average
Scientists...................39% less than the average
So the typical Creationist is a High School dropout black (or white) woman with income less than $50k a year. Education stands out strongly as a factor, income is next in importance, gender is next, race is of little importance, training in science is most important.
Belief in Evolution
Republicans......30%
Democrats........57%
Independents....61%
Surprise, surprise! Republicans are much, much more likely to be creationists than Democrats or Independents!
Is anybody surprised at these Gallup figures?
Still not anything on the actual numbers in the universes sampled here, how many Creationists and AiG'rs are there?
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| Edited by - bngbuck on 04/04/2008 17:30:06 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2008 : 17:37:44 [Permalink]
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Bill:
Is anybody surprised at these Gallup figures? |
I'm not...  |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2008 : 19:16:19 [Permalink]
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bng asked:
| Filth, do you (or does anyone else here) have a good handle on how many of these certified AiG imbeciles, and their ilk, there are in their Movement? I mean an estimate of the population of sub-morons that really subscribe to this incredible bullshit? |
22% of the US population believe they will be raptured to heaven in their lifetime. 22% believe the rapture will happen in less than 50 years. So about 44% of the US population.
1/3 of the US population believe the bible is literally true.
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/38/8664
25% of the US population thought it was at least "somewhat likely" jesus would be comming to visit in 2007.
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/208/story_20828_1.html
There are polls by gallup and others on this topic at least once a year.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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The Bible and Modern Astronomy, Part 2
