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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
 Posted - 04/07/2008 : 08:31:01
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According to NASA's director of the Goddard Inistitute, they are working over-time to hide the truth. Is this conspiracy theory or fact? Are you skeptical?
Note this is the guy the Bush Administration tried to censor and who rammed it right up their asses publicly. Traditionally the Right Wing destroys people like this. I wonder what they'll do to him? Paint him as an alarmist lunatic?
Earth in crisis, warns NASA's top climate scientist by Rita Farrell
WILMINGTON, Delaware (AFP) - Global warming has plunged the planet into a crisis and the fossil fuel industries are trying to hide the extent of the problem from the public, NASA's top climate scientist says.
"We've already reached the dangerous level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere," James Hansen, 67, director of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York, told AFP here.
"But there are ways to solve the problem" of heat-trapping greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide, which Hansen said has reached the "tipping point" of 385 parts per million.
In a paper he was submitting to Science magazine on Monday, Hansen calls for phasing out all coal-fired plants by 2030, taxing their emissions until then, and banning the building of new plants unless they are designed to trap and segregate the carbon dioxide they emit.
The major obstacle to saving the planet from its inhabitants is not technology, insisted Hansen, named one of the world's 100 most influential people in 2006 by Time magazine.
"The problem is that 90 percent of energy is fossil fuels. And that is such a huge business, it has permeated our government," he maintained.
"What's become clear to me in the past several years is that both the executive branch and the legislative branch are strongly influenced by special fossil fuel interests," he said, referring to the providers of coal, oil and natural gas and the energy industry that burns them.
In a recent survey of what concerns people, global warming ranked 25th.
"The industry is misleading the public and policy makers about the cause of climate change. And that is analogous to what the cigarette manufacturers did. They knew smoking caused cancer, but they hired scientists who said that was not the case."
Hansen says that with an administration and legislature that he believes are "well oiled, our best hope is the judicial branch."
Last year Hansen testified before the US Congress that "interference with communication of science to the public has been greater during the current administration than at any time in my career."
Government public relations officials, he said, filter the facts in science reports to reduce "concern about the relation of climate change to human-made greenhouse gas emissions."
While he recognizes that he has stepped outside the traditional role of scientists as researchers rather than as public policy advocates, he says he does so because "in this particular situation we've reached a crisis."
The policy makers, "the people who need to know are ignorant of the actual status of the matter, and the gravity of the matter, and most important, the urgency of the matter," he charged.
"It's analogous to an engineer who sees that there's a flaw in the space shuttle before it is to be launched. You don't have any choice. You have to say something. That's really all that I'm doing," he explained.
Hansen was in Wilmington to receive a 50,000 dollar Common Wealth Award for outstanding achievement, along with the former prime minister of Australia John Howard, the US actress Glenn Close, and NBC news anchor Ann Curry.
The awards are provided by a trust of the late Ralph Hayes, a former director of Coca Cola and Bank of Delaware, now PNC. In 29 years, 165 former honorees in seven fields have included former US secretary of state Henry Kissinger, former US newsman Walter Cronkite, French marine biologist Jacques-Yves Cousteau and Colombian author Gabriel Garcia Marquez.
Howard, who would not sign the Kyoto protocol when he was in office, told AFP: "I thought it was the right policy at the time because the major emitters" were not on board."
He added: "You need a new Kyoto protocol with all the major emitters committed to it. Then you are cooking with gas."
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080407/sc_afp/usclimateenvironmentnasa_080407051048
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-Chaloobi
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2008 : 08:44:47 [Permalink]
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| Say it ain't so Joe... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2008 : 10:24:32 [Permalink]
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In order to be a conspiracy, it has to start out secret... right?
I don't think the energy lobby has ever made any attempt to hide their actions, oil companies have openly advertised for people to dispute anthropogenic climate change, etc.
The only secret in this game is the Dick Cheney 2000 meeting to set energy policies. We still don't know the content of that meeting.
So no, its not a conspiracy.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2008 : 13:30:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
In order to be a conspiracy, it has to start out secret... right?
I don't think the energy lobby has ever made any attempt to hide their actions, oil companies have openly advertised for people to dispute anthropogenic climate change, etc.
The only secret in this game is the Dick Cheney 2000 meeting to set energy policies. We still don't know the content of that meeting.
So no, its not a conspiracy.
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If they all got together in a meeting and laid out a plan to systematically mislead the nation on climate change and then refused to give any information to the public about that meeting.... ah, whatever. There could be a conspiracy but there doesn't need to be - they've done well enough in plain sight, more or less, like you said. |
-Chaloobi
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mark1345
New Member
1 Post |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 04:30:57 [Permalink]
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Yes...it is a conspiracy by petroleum companies to get rid of competition...get these greenies and hippies behind environmental groups to lobby the government to maintain their monopoly by not allowing the building of new refineries and constrict supply...also the uneconomical production of bio fuels...which guess what? Cost 2-4 times more, even use fossil fuels in their production and still produce CO2
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cult (n): a small, unpopular religion
religion (n): a large, popular cult
http://isaiah34.net/Nuclear-War-Armageddon.htm
you think? |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 04:52:16 [Permalink]
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I heard that Chevron bought the patents for large NiMh-batteries in the 10-20KWh range. The size that is suitable for electric vehicles. They decided not to renew Panasonics license, that is supposedly why Panasonic couldn't continue manufacturing batteries for Toyota RAV-4 EV.
I don't know what to make of this. Can anyone corroborate the story?
Edit:
Found this on Wikipedia:
| Whether or not Toyota wanted to continue production, it was unlikely to be able to do so, because the EV-95 battery was no longer available. Chevron had inherited control of the worldwide patent rights for the NiMH EV-95 battery when it merged with Texaco, which had purchased them from General Motors. Chevron's unit won a $30,000,000 settlement from Toyota and Panasonic, and the production line for the large NiMH batteries was closed down and dismantled. Only smaller NiMH batteries, incapable of powering an electric vehicle or plugging in, are currently allowed by Chevron-Texaco. |
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 05/19/2008 06:45:27 |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 06:16:56 [Permalink]
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De. Mabuse.....
| I heard that Chevron bought the patents for large NiMh-batteries in the 10-20KWh range. The size that is suitable for electric vehicles. They decided not to renew Panasonics license, that is supposedly why Panasonic couldn't continue manufacturing batteries for Toyota RAV-4 EV. |
Where did you hear this? |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 06:40:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
I heard that Chevron bought the patents for large NiMh-batteries in the 10-20KWh range. The size that is suitable for electric vehicles. They decided not to renew Panasonics license, that is supposedly why Panasonic couldn't continue manufacturing batteries for Toyota RAV-4 EV.
I don't know what to make of this. Can anyone corroborate the story?
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I'll dig around some, but it sounds to me a little like the old 200 mpg carburator patent buyout myth that has floated around since the '50s. |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 06:52:43 [Permalink]
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Nothing on Snopes about it and I found this, which would seem to argue against it.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 07:33:21 [Permalink]
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I would not necessarily call it a conspiracy.
But it certainly is a very powerful lobby that has strong tie with the government and particularly this particular administration. But, indeed, that's hardly a secret. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 07:37:50 [Permalink]
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Welcome to the SFN, mark1345!Originally posted by mark1345
Yes...it is a conspiracy by petroleum companies to get rid of competition...get these greenies and hippies behind environmental groups to lobby the government to maintain their monopoly by not allowing the building of new refineries and constrict supply... |
That's funny when refinery capacity is currently being expanded and there's no shortage of supply.| also the uneconomical production of bio fuels...which guess what? Cost 2-4 times more, even use fossil fuels in their production and still produce CO2 |
Biofuel from foods was, indeed, a stupid idea. One that is, with luck, on its way out. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 08:38:20 [Permalink]
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As far as the electricity production is concerned, I am not sure about the viability of the alternatives yet. Nuclear is one, but many people might think that the cure is worst than the disease.
The alternative any supplies have progressed a lot in recent years but I don't know if we have reached the point where if they constitute a realistic source of energy just yet. But we have done some great progress in the recent years (basically since they stopped being researched only by a handful of greenies and that some real effort were put behind them...).
As far as carburant goes.
Hybrids are viable, but I think we lack an incentive from the government (that's where the $600 rebate could have gone) to help people make the transition.
Also, the European and Japanese engines already have a much better gaz mileage than US so it would not be difficult to help the situation a bit without technical investment. It is just a lack of political will, in my opinion.
One could also mention the poor state of mass transportation in certain part of the country that force people to use individual cars. Once again, Europe and Japan do much better (even considering the difference in term of superficy) which show us that solutions do exist.
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Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 11:37:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Nothing on Snopes about it and I found this, which would seem to argue against it.
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Discussions in filthy's link revolves around Cobasys. From Wikipedia:
| Cobasys LLC supplies nickel metal hydride (NiMH) batteries, battery control systems, and packaged solutions for automative applications, uninterruptable power supplies, telecommunications applications, and distributed power generation.[1] It is a 50-50 joint venture between California-based Chevron Corporation and Michigan-based Energy Conversion Devices, Inc. (also called ECD Ovonics, ECD, or Ovonics)[2][3] The intermediary hierarchy of ownership is that Cobasys LLC is owned by Chevron's subsidiary Chevron Technology Ventures LLC, and ECD Ovonics' subsidiary Ovonic Battery Company. |
Of intrest is the part about the Patent dispute: ECD Ovonics and Ovonic Battery Company, Inc. against Matsushita and Toyota |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 12:34:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Welcome to the SFN, mark1345!Originally posted by mark1345
Yes...it is a conspiracy by petroleum companies to get rid of competition...get these greenies and hippies behind environmental groups to lobby the government to maintain their monopoly by not allowing the building of new refineries and constrict supply... |
That's funny when refinery capacity is currently being expanded and there's no shortage of supply. |
Really? I thought that part of the problem was our limited refining capability. In a recent Times piece, they quote (apparent) gas guru Trilby Lundberg as saying:| The refinery margin on gasoline is so poor, I think the upward pressure on the refining margin will push up the price at the pump, even if crude oil does not. |
And after the announcement of the a new oil field in Brazilian waters, another article speculated that| The new oil, along with refining projects under way by Petrobras, the national oil company, could eventually make Brazil a larger exporter of gasoline as well, adding to supplies in the United States and other countries where it is all but impossible to build new refineries. |
I could be wrong, but this has always been my understanding.
I don't think this is a huge conspiracy, mind you, just econimcs at play. |
| Edited by - Cuneiformist on 05/19/2008 12:34:46 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 14:51:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Really? I thought that part of the problem was our limited refining capability. |
Despite the shutdown of a few refineries and events like Katrina, operable refining capacity in the US has gone up every year since 2002. And current utilization of that capacity is only 85%.
A radio report I heard last week and cannot find again said that all the major players have plans to increase capacity at current refineries over the next umpty-ump years, some by up to 50%. New refineries aren't needed. The current ones can increase capacity by adding more equipment and/or replacing old inefficient equipment. Of course, every time someone temporarily shuts down a refinery for maintenance or improvements, people scream about reduced refining capacity. But it has to happen sometime.
What Lundberg (who is, indeed, an expert) seems to be saying is that there's so little profit margin in refining that fluctuations of crude prices get passed through the refiners to the pump. The cost of refining cannot be reduced further, so refining doesn't provide a cost buffer. If the profit margin were higher, refineries could reduce their margin in response to increased oil costs to eliminate increased prices at the pumps. But they aren't, so they can't. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Government Conspiring with Big Oil and Coal?
