|
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 04/10/2008 : 13:33:28
|
I knew it was out there somewhere and I'm sure there there are more like it or even better. Slitherin' link: What was lost tens of millions of years ago is now found.
A fossil animal locked in Lebanese limestone has been shown to be an extremely precious discovery - a snake with two legs.
Scientists have only a handful of specimens that illustrate the evolutionary narrative that goes from ancient lizard to limbless modern serpent.
Researchers at the European Light Source (ESRF) in Grenoble, France, used intense X-rays to confirm that a creature imprinted on a rock, and with one visible leg, had another appendage buried just under the surface of the slab.
|
I'm gonna crack me a jug o' the good stuff tonight!
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
|
|
|
Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
 Posted - 04/10/2008 : 13:41:13 [Permalink]
|
Wow.
They also found a frog with no lungs.
 |
Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
 |
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 04/10/2008 : 17:19:17 [Permalink]
|
Already got that one Chip. I'm a little suprised you missed it.
This find is really extraordinary; an almost fully articulated serpent fossil! Those are about as common as ears on eggs. I'm already skulking about looking for more info.
The reactions of the various & usual suspects should be interesting as well due to their strangled claims of 'no vestigial features.' The legs on this guy are about as vestigial as it gets; indeed, one can imagine the animals having a fairly high, accidential amputation rate.
The next one I want to see is quite a bit older and has four legs that work but are not used all that much.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2008 : 21:24:10 [Permalink]
|
Neat. Now, what's predicted about an earlier snake fossil with four legs? Is that going to be a much shorter reptile, pretty much a lizard? Or is a long, snaky critter expected?
|
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
|
|
|
Archereon
New Member
New Zealand
32 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2008 : 00:28:57 [Permalink]
|
And are aig and frauds all going to try and find one that has the correct throat structures that would allow it to talk?
|
West Ham Claret and Blue Army NZ div |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2008 : 02:31:05 [Permalink]
|
The specimen found was certainly wholly aquatic, coming ashore only to lay it's eggs like our modern sea snakes -- another of evolution's more obvious fuckups. Or was it one of God's? Depends on who you ask, I guess.
I think that the species we really want will be terrestrial and lizard-like with very short legs. It will show greatly diminished or even vestigial ears and a separated and highly elastic, lower jaw rather like this one:
But that's just the speculations of a laymen; I could be way off and likely am.
There's really not a lot to a snake's skull, is there? That is why they are so difficult to find and identify, and why I'm still swooning with ecstasy over this one. It's better'n finding some dumb dinosaur any ol' day!
Transitionals anyone? And would you like an order of derision to share with that?
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
|
Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2008 : 10:26:48 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by filthy
Already got that one Chip. I'm a little surprised you missed it... |
D'oh! I was out of town, thanks.
As for the ancient aquatic snake, they noted that the legs are far down the body. Practically dropping off the tail. I surmise that the legs were likely further up on the body earlier in the history of this type of animal? This is a very interesting find indeed! |
Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2008 : 13:26:56 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Chippewa
Originally posted by filthy
Already got that one Chip. I'm a little surprised you missed it... |
D'oh! I was out of town, thanks.
As for the ancient aquatic snake, they noted that the legs are far down the body. Practically dropping off the tail. I surmise that the legs were likely further up on the body earlier in the history of this type of animal? This is a very interesting find indeed!
|
Actually, they were at or, more likely, slightly anterior of the cloaca, as in modern reptiles. Thinking about it, that holds for all tetrapods, except, perhaps, some half-assed humans.
I noted that as well; this guy had a long gut.
Edit: it was also probably a female, as they have rather shorter tails than males.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
| Edited by - filthy on 04/12/2008 08:36:18 |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 04/12/2008 : 08:44:15 [Permalink]
|
Nothing yet from AiG Nor ICR. They're running a bit behind schedule. Perhaps they're afraid of.....
SNEAKY SNAKE
Words and music by Tom T. Hall
Boys and girls take warning
If you go near the lake
keep your eyes wide open
And look for Sneaky Snake
Now maybe you won't see him
And maybe you won't hear
But he'll sneak up behind you
And drink all of your Root Beer.
CHORUS:
And then Sneaky Snake goes dancin'
wigglin' and a-hissin'
Sneaky Snake goes dancin'
gigglin' and a-kissin'
I dont like old Sneaky Snake,
He laughs too much, you see
When he goes wiggin' thru the grass
It tickles his under-neath.
Well, Sneaky Snake drinks Root Beer and he just makes me sick
When he is not dancin', he looks just like a stick
Now he doesn't have any arms or legs, you cannot see his ears
And while we are not lookin', he's stealin' all of our beer.
CHORUS
Sorry; couldn't resist....
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2008 : 02:48:00 [Permalink]
|
Finally!
They didn't put out an article per se, but covered it in their weekly News to Note column. Scroll down to the third article, or, what the hell, read the whole thing. It's good for a Sunday chuckle before church, but this time, at least try and keep a straight face during services. All that snickering distracts Pastor.
"The strange monster is back: a snake with legs!
It sounds like an oddity to some: a fossilized snake found in Lebanon with two hind limbs. For others, the serpent of Genesis 3—cursed to walk on its belly—comes to mind. So what does this leggy snake have to do with Genesis and evolution?"
<snip>
"This find doesn't faze creationists, though, and we have the same response we've had to several other legged snake fossil finds in the past. For instance, two years ago we responded to the Argentine snake fossil; here are a few of those notes (summarized):
If snakes once had legs they've now lost, this fits in perfectly with the creation model. The “evolution” we observe around us is all information-reducing, degenerating change. That is, creatures become less sophisticated from their original forms and actually lose features and functionality. It makes sense, then, that snakes may have been created with legs but that over time, natural selection in specific environments favored those without legs—a simpler form. That said, these so-called “legs,” which evolutionists admit were too short in this specimen to be used for ambulation, may have been used in copulation. Perhaps no snakes ever “walked” in any sense.
Evolutionists conceptualize snakes as evolved lizards (or marine reptiles) because it's the only conclusion from an evolutionary standpoint—yet this conclusion ignores the fact that snakes require a very specialized backbone and some snakes have unhinging jaws, also unlike other reptiles. "
And so forth -- about what was expected albeit not as imaginative as I'd hoped. And I must confess that I'd forgotten about the Argentine specimen. 
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
| Edited by - filthy on 04/13/2008 02:50:28 |
|
|
|
furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2008 : 05:49:54 [Permalink]
|
| If snakes once had legs they've now lost, this fits in perfectly with the creation model. The “evolution” we observe around us is all information-reducing, degenerating change. |
I wonder if the development of the jacobs organ or the heat sensing organ on a pit viper are also considered information-reduction by these morons. I actually am not sure if the jacobs organ is something that is only in snakes but certainly the heat sensing organ on pit vipers is. I'm sure you'll set me straight filthy.
|
If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2008 : 11:52:52 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by furshur
| If snakes once had legs they've now lost, this fits in perfectly with the creation model. The “evolution” we observe around us is all information-reducing, degenerating change. |
I wonder if the development of the jacobs organ or the heat sensing organ on a pit viper are also considered information-reduction by these morons. I actually am not sure if the jacobs organ is something that is only in snakes but certainly the heat sensing organ on pit vipers is. I'm sure you'll set me straight filthy.
|
All vertibrates have jacobson's organ, including me & thee. We just use it a little differently.
The heat sensors are to be found around the upper lip in boids (boas & pythons)as well as pit vipers. They are as effective as the snakes eyes, 'seeing' in quite clear detail.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
| Edited by - filthy on 04/25/2008 11:58:09 |
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
I've waited a long time for this one!
