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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2008 : 06:39:32 [Permalink]
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Orson Scott Card is a master craftsman... when it comes to writing.
But over the last few years his genuine stupidity with regard to certain issues (evolution, global warming, etc) have ruined his credibility.
I have no respect for the man, and thats pretty sad. I was once a great fan of his work.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 06/03/2008 : 07:48:12 [Permalink]
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And here at last, it is: Judge Tells Yoko Ono: Imagine Fair Use
DaveScot
Yoko Ono's copyright infringement suit against the makers of Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed for using 15 seconds of the Lennon song Imagine was thrown out of court. Of course we all knew it was no more than a nuisance suit brought because Ono didn't approve of the film's negative view of the philosophy expressed in Imagine.
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They have a new format so way scroll down.
Having thought about it, I about half agree with this decision. But y'know, this is really the only success they've had. I wonder what their major doners are thinking about right now.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2008 : 09:36:01 [Permalink]
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| And DaveScot makes the same mistake lots of other people are making: a denial of the injunction does not mean that the lawsuit has been won by the defense. The article he quotes says so. Dumbass. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
 Posted - 06/03/2008 : 10:12:14 [Permalink]
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ORSON SCOTT CARD
From wiki
Orson Scott Card (born August 24, 1951)[1] is a bestselling American author, as well as being a critic, political writer, and speaker. He writes in several genres, but primarily known for his science fiction work.
Card has written, "We care about moral issues, nobility, decency, happiness, goodness—the issues that matter in the real world, but which can only be addressed, in their purity, in fiction."
Card's writing career began primarily as a poet, studying with Clinton F. Larson at Brigham Young University. In 2005, Card accepted a permanent appointment as "distinguished professor" at Southern Virginia University in Buena Vista, Virginia, a small liberal arts college run based on the principles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
Card is active as a critic, political writer, and speaker. Card is a vocal supporter of many aspects of George W. Bush's leadership style, the war on terror, aspects of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and aspects of the USA PATRIOT Act. Though he praises Fox News for aspects of their news coverage, he maintains his cynicism.
Card identifies himself as a Democrat because he is pro-gun control/anti-National Rifle Association, highly critical of free-market capitalism, and because he believes that the Republican party in the South continues to tolerate racism. He has written columns condemning extremist liberals as being part of what's wrong with America, and praises Zell Miller for trying to save the Democratic Party. During the 2004 election Card wrote many articles supporting the Bush/Cheney ticket, criticizing John Kerry, and lambasting his own state's senator, John Edwards, as being absurd, insincere, and an opportunistic shill.
He has also been a staunch defender of Fox News, stating that "It's a good feeling to hear about our war from people who actually think it would be a good thing if we win.
"There is only one issue in this election that will matter five or ten years from now, and that's the War on Terror..."
Card has also frequently criticized precipitate action on global warming, and has voiced the suggestion that scientific evidence against global warming is suppressed because global warming has become an academic orthodoxy that discourages opposing evidence.
Card's views on homosexuality have led a number of critics to accuse him of being homophobic. Card has called same-sex marriage a "potentially devastating social experiment" and argued that same-sex marriage is not necessary to ensure equal rights, since "Any homosexual man who can persuade a woman to take him as her husband can avail himself of all the rights of husbandhood under the law."
This dude is not a science fiction writer, he is science fiction! Talk about conflicted - Mormon, Bushie, Patriot Actor, Fox News shill, terrorist calamity howler, homophobe, pro ID, anti evolution......and he calls himself a liberal Democrat!
Poor bastard suffers from traumatic schizoid tri-polar personality disintegration. I doubt he knows what planet he lives on. Needs serious psychiatric therapy, like two years of continuous high-voltage electroshock!
If this is the King of Science Fiction, I'm glad I gave it up back when Eando Binder were (they were brothers) the quintessential pundits of the genre!
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| Edited by - bngbuck on 06/03/2008 10:26:23 |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2008 : 11:00:11 [Permalink]
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Strange character, ain't he?
He is a nice article I read a few weeks ago. It is only partly about the dude, but I really enjoyed the article (and bought a book by the author that I just finished that I did not find nearly as interesting; unfortunately).
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Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2008 : 23:23:45 [Permalink]
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The single best opening paragraph (that I know of) in modern novel writing is that in his Seventh Son. But I agree, Card's fine writing ability, and his cogitation in other arenas are quite strangely separate and divergent.
But, Bill, there has been fine science fiction (and fantasy) written in the last half century. Some of it even by Card -- though I wonder if his mind has been slipping in recent years.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2008 : 03:33:03 [Permalink]
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Off topic (sorry 'bout that):
“Calling Atheism a ‘religion' is like calling ‘bald' a hair color.” -— Blaidd Drwg |
Love the signature. I saw it at, I think, PZ's and considered taking it myself, but didn't. 
Ok, back on topic, which is getting kinda boring 'cause ID has pretty much shot it's current wad and now seems to be merely treading water and praying for low tide. I wonder what hilarity they'll offer us next?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2008 : 09:32:32 [Permalink]
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Half Mooner.....
| But, Bill, there has been fine science fiction (and fantasy) written in the last half century. Some of it even by Card -- though I wonder if his mind has been slipping in recent years. |
Mooner, from what I read about science fiction, I am sure you are right. I started reading in the genre when I was a child and discovered a cache of old Amazing Stories from the early '30's. Lurid monsters on the covers, frequently groping beautiful scantily clad blondes - this was heady stuff for a ten year old in 1938, gloriously anticipating puberty!
In my teens, I bought Amazing Stories, Astounding Science Fiction, Thrilling Wonder Stories, Startling Stories, Marvel Science Fiction and several of their ilk whose names I don't recall anymore! These were the classic pulps in whose newsprint paper pages Science Fiction was born! Would that I had saved them to today, the old rags are worth a fortune as collector items!
I read SF until I went to college, at which time my intellectual horizons enlarged considerably, and I found little time for fiction of any sort. Stayed with John Campbell's Astounding sporadically until it became Analog; by then I was becoming involved in the pursuit of monetary happiness and didn't have time to think, must less read.
Today, my eighteen hour days have been further complicated by SFN, and although my reading is extensive, a rare Koontz or Thomas Perry is about all the fiction I can find time for. I envy those that can budget their absorption time sufficiently to read fiction to any degree! |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 11:59:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
| “Calling Atheism a ‘religion' is like calling ‘bald' a hair color.” — Blaidd Drwg |
That actually comes to us from Don Hirschberg.
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Thanks! I've fixed the attribution.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 12:09:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Half Mooner.....
| But, Bill, there has been fine science fiction (and fantasy) written in the last half century. Some of it even by Card -- though I wonder if his mind has been slipping in recent years. |
Mooner, from what I read about science fiction, I am sure you are right. I started reading in the genre when I was a child and discovered a cache of old Amazing Stories from the early '30's. Lurid monsters on the covers, frequently groping beautiful scantily clad blondes - this was heady stuff for a ten year old in 1938, gloriously anticipating puberty!
In my teens, I bought Amazing Stories, Astounding Science Fiction, Thrilling Wonder Stories, Startling Stories, Marvel Science Fiction and several of their ilk whose names I don't recall anymore! These were the classic pulps in whose newsprint paper pages Science Fiction was born! Would that I had saved them to today, the old rags are worth a fortune as collector items!
I read SF until I went to college, at which time my intellectual horizons enlarged considerably, and I found little time for fiction of any sort. Stayed with John Campbell's Astounding sporadically until it became Analog; by then I was becoming involved in the pursuit of monetary happiness and didn't have time to think, must less read.
Today, my eighteen hour days have been further complicated by SFN, and although my reading is extensive, a rare Koontz or Thomas Perry is about all the fiction I can find time for. I envy those that can budget their absorption time sufficiently to read fiction to any degree!
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Oh, that wonderful, horrible 1/2-cent-a-word pulp stuff! I once had a 1928 issue of Amazing, from back in the Hugo Gernsback days, and (in about 1960) a signed, badly-typed postcard from Gernsback telling me which of the Science Fiction Book Club selections I'd made were not available, and listing his set of substitutions. Those pulps were wonderful.
I also subscribed to Astounding through its transformation to Analog. (Campbell pissed me off at about that time by promoting the Dean Drive, in which I was briefly naive enough to believe.)
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 06/05/2008 12:16:50 |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2008 : 17:34:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Ok, back on topic, which is getting kinda boring 'cause ID has pretty much shot it's current wad and now seems to be merely treading water and praying for low tide. I wonder what hilarity they'll offer us next?
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You could always read uncommondescent. Dembski has an interesting post up:
| Colorado Governor Bill Ritter's signing of a transgender anti-discrimination bill points up the lunacy that ensues in a world without design (see here). |
That's the entire post, btw. What Bill totally forgets, of course, is that ID says nothing about the designer. Perhaps he/she/it really loves transgender people. He sure didn't think about that, did he?!
Or perhaps Bill is actually conceding that there is no design in this world... You could read it like that as well...
It's worthwile reading the comments if you're not feeling too depressed already.
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METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2008 : 02:25:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Hawks
Originally posted by filthy
Ok, back on topic, which is getting kinda boring 'cause ID has pretty much shot it's current wad and now seems to be merely treading water and praying for low tide. I wonder what hilarity they'll offer us next?
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You could always read uncommondescent. Dembski has an interesting post up:
| Colorado Governor Bill Ritter's signing of a transgender anti-discrimination bill points up the lunacy that ensues in a world without design (see here). |
That's the entire post, btw. What Bill totally forgets, of course, is that ID says nothing about the designer. Perhaps he/she/it really loves transgender people. He sure didn't think about that, did he?!
Or perhaps Bill is actually conceding that there is no design in this world... You could read it like that as well...
It's worthwile reading the comments if you're not feeling too depressed already.
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Sad, really. And a little crazy. I note that one responder asked what all this transgender stuff has to do with ID. No one seems to have an answer for him, although one seems obvious: nothing!
Christian fundalmentalism lurks just beneath the surface of "intelligent design" like a dose of the clap in a waterfront brothel. As they simply can't come right out & say "Goddidit" due to their loudly proclaimed neutrality on religion, they are pretty much stuck in at least as narrow a groove as their more open bretheren (& sisteren). The strangled lie of ommission has them pinned in a corner that they can't talk their way out of without actually identifying the "Designer," and so they must jog along in place, bewildered from a lack of direction, until someone else comes up with another brillent scheme to get them back in the spotlight, and probably to taking up yet more valuable court time.
I've found out that I'm not going to get to see Expelled. The Baptist Church nearby isn't going to bother with it, so all of my fishing for an invitation has gone for naught. Ah well..... 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2008 : 06:48:02 [Permalink]
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It showed at the nearby theatre (go figure; Mississippi) and I did consider going to see it.
But, nah, no way Ben Stein is getting any of my hard-earned devalued dollars! In this case, I'd consider breaking copyright laws and downloading it some kind of duty. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2008 : 21:05:11 [Permalink]
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Well, I finally remembered to go look at the box-office numbers again. BoxOfficeMojo gives Expelled $7.614 million as of May 29, 2008 (they don't have any daily numbers listed past May 15th, though). The-Numbers had the movie at $7.598 million as of May 26. Assuming that the movie hasn't made more than a pittance since then (perhaps a few hold-out theaters in the Bible Belt), this puts it almost $1.1 million shy of matching Mad Hot Ballroom in all-time domestic box-office gross for a documentary, once corrected for inflation. Barring a theatrical re-release, it will forever be in 13th place or lower.
I will remind everyone that at least one of the producers was very confident that Expelled would have a 12-15 million dollar opening weekend, so by that metric it failed miserably. It also no longer seems to be making the mainstream news in any way other than the copyright lawsuits, so it has failed there, too (despite all the "hype" created by PZ's explusion according to the likes of Chris Mooney). And not a few people have suggested that the release of the movie was timed to coincide with a handful of "academic freedom" laws being pushed through state legislatures, but they all failed as well.
The only things the movie may have succeeded in doing are (A) prompting the creation of the excellent Expelled Exposed website by the NCSE, and (B) giving Ben Stein's lackluster career a quick and trembling stroking (but Viagra might have worked better and made him look less idiotic). |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed! ...Part 2
