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Coat Of Arms
Skeptic Friend
USA
58 Posts |
 Posted - 05/17/2008 : 05:56:47
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Question? It's Hypothetical, as in a rhetorical question, calls for an opinion,It's a valid question and one I have thought of numerous times.John Edward, Who is this guy? Why hasn't someone in his staff blown the whistle? How does he get away with this? Does everyone who works for him really believe he is the real deal? Does he hire delusional people?
The question is based on surmising rather than asking for a definitive or conclusive answer.It's the opinion of anyone who want's to answer the question..
If John Edward is a fraud, why hasn't an employee or one of his staff members exposed him as a fraud? His T.V. career spans the cable network since 1990. At some point in his long career he more then likely has fired staff member, or other people have left his employment disgruntled. His shows are huge and he must employ an entourage of people. So why hasn't he been exposed? The tabloid papers would eat up the story and pay a great deal of money. The person exposing Edward's could become famous over night. (As in, 15 minutes of fame) He may even become a house hold name.
So why hasn't he been exposed? I have a reasonable idea, does anyone else?
John Edward is a professional con man. He has mastered the art of cold reading. I believe he is the best at what he does. I don't believe his staff or any crew member is under any contract or agreement of secrecy. I don't believe he uses hidden cameras or microphones to obtain information. He is so proficient in cold reading that it's not necessary to take foolish chances. I don't believe any of his crew members is in on the scam. It's always possible he uses other techniques of deceit, but the moment Im ruling them out. There is no reason why a talented con man should take a chance of being exposed by paying staff members to obtain personal information prior to a show. He makes millions of dollars, cold reading, he only needs to believe in his credulous talent to deceive people.
Hypothetical, that's my opinion, and it's based on my rhetorical question
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Paul C. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2008 : 07:49:15 [Permalink]
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Coat Of Arms:
John Edward is a professional con man. He has mastered the art of cold reading. I believe he is the best at what he does. I don't believe his staff or any crew member is under any contract or agreement of secrecy. I don't believe he uses hidden cameras or microphones to obtain information. He is so proficient in cold reading that it's not necessary to take foolish chances. I don't believe any of his crew members is in on the scam. It's always possible he uses other techniques of deceit, but the moment Im ruling them out. There is no reason why a talented con man should take a chance of being exposed by paying staff members to obtain personal information prior to a show. He makes millions of dollars, cold reading, he only needs to believe in his credulous talent to deceive people.
Hypothetical, that's my opinion, and it's based on my rhetorical question |
In his article on John Edwards called Deconstructing The Dead , Michael Shermer, after considering warm or hot readings by Edwards (something he doesn't rule out based on his experience at a taping of Crossing Over) concludes:
Most of the time, however, mediums do not need to cheat. The reason has to do with the psychology of belief. This stuff works because the people who go to mediums want it to work (remember, they do the readings, not the mediums). The simplest explanation for how mediums can get away with such an outrageous claim as the ability to talk to the dead is that they are dealing with a subject the likes of which it would be hard to top for tragedy and finality--death. Sooner or later we all will face this inevitability, starting, in the normal course of events, with the loss of our parents, then siblings and friends, and eventually ourselves. It is a grim outcome under the best of circumstances, made all the worse when death comes early or accidentally to those whose "time was not up." As those who traffic in the business of loss, death, and grief know all too well, we are often at our most vulnerable at such times. Giving deep thought to this reality can cause the most controlled and rational among us to succumb to our emotions. |
Perhaps the staff must sign nondisclosure agreements. Or maybe that sort of thing is just not necessary because the staff is as hoodwinked as the audience is. Certainly, given the creative editing of the show, the producers must know if there are any shenanigans going on. But it would tarnish their reputations too, if they were caught in a deception. Also, since money is what they are interested in, spelling the beans would not really serve them.
All I can do is speculate.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 05/17/2008 : 07:59:00 [Permalink]
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He is a master cold-reader, yes. People who operate a that level of skill don't need a lot of data to start with. A skilled douche-bag cold reader like Edward can get clues from jewelry, clothing, ethnicity, and how good your tan is.... say nothing of your emotional state.
Edwards starts off looking at a group of his audience, makes some general statements based on little cues he sees, and zeroes in on his victims based on their responses to the general stuff. He knows that there are enough commonalities between all people, and the people who show up at his shows all have dead family members, that his general statements can easily lead to a "hit", which he can narrow down on.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2008 : 08:13:29 [Permalink]
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You are correct, Edward is as skilled a cold-reader and as predatory a scumbag as you're likely to find in modern times. And he has been outted several times, although I don't know if it was a disgruntled minion. He handles it as might be expected: poo-pooing the skeptic and/or claiming sour grapes, accompained by hand waving and doubtful ancedotes of triumphant accomplishments. And he gets away with it, every time, because his audiences are 'True Believers,' not to come out and state 'woo-woo to the max!' over the supernatural. These invaribly are afraid of an existence that fails to include the the unique and irreplacable 'Me.' Thus they cling to this and other grifters because it givs them 'hope.' And they give him money in return, and actually help him guess in his hits because they desperately want him to be correct and to tell them what they want to hear. Pretty remarkable, when you think about it.
And I don't think he can be prosecuted for any of it because, like proving/disproving God, it would be difficult to prove/disprove that ghosts don't converse with him at convient times, although the conversation are a little garbled in the translation to the skeptical ear.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2008 : 08:26:06 [Permalink]
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Joe Nickell has somr thoughts on the matter: Investigative Files
John Edward: Hustling the Bereaved
Joe Nickell
John Edward is a stand-up guy. Unlike the spiritualists of yore, who typically plied their trade in dark-room séances, Edward and his ilk often perform before live audiences and even under the glare of TV lights. Indeed, Edward (a pseudonym: he was born John MaGee Jr.) has his own popular show on the SciFi channel called Crossing Over, which has gone into national syndication (Barrett 2001; Mui 2001). I was asked by television newsmagazine Dateline NBC to study Edward's act: was he really talking to the dead? |
As always with Nickell, it's a good read by a dedicated skeptic.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2008 : 08:45:59 [Permalink]
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filthy, even we amatuers here at the SFN could destroy Edwards in a controlled test! So we could easily prove that he lacks the ability to "speak" with the dead, even if we could never prove "ghosts don't exist".
None of the stuff he does is illegal though. There is ALWAYS an "entertainment purposes only" disclaimer.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2008 : 10:06:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Coat Of Arms
If John Edward is a fraud, why hasn't an employee or one of his staff members exposed him as a fraud? His T.V. career spans the cable network since 1990. At some point in his long career he more then likely has fired staff member, or other people have left his employment disgruntled. His shows are huge and he must employ an entourage of people. So why hasn't he been exposed? |
The same could be said of Peter Popoff or any of the other grifters known as televangelists. The fact is that the employees are either in on the con, or themselves deceived.| The tabloid papers would eat up the story and pay a great deal of money. |
Here's where you're dead wrong. The tabloids make money by reinforcing the woo, not by debunking it. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2008 : 12:24:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
filthy, even we amatuers here at the SFN could destroy Edwards in a controlled test! So we could easily prove that he lacks the ability to "speak" with the dead, even if we could never prove "ghosts don't exist".
None of the stuff he does is illegal though. There is ALWAYS an "entertainment purposes only" disclaimer.
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Oh sure, but he would never allow an interview with anyone actually skeptical including us. Unless he gets indicted, unlikely, he will always pick & choose his venues. The couple of interviews I've seen over the years(found by accident, actually) were in a friendly context, after which he did a 'reading' for the audience.
A slimey, little crook he might be, but never let it be said that he's not smart, little crook.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Coat Of Arms
Skeptic Friend
USA
58 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2008 : 16:48:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Coat Of Arms
If John Edward is a fraud, why hasn't an employee or one of his staff members exposed him as a fraud? His T.V. career spans the cable network since 1990. At some point in his long career he more then likely has fired staff member, or other people have left his employment disgruntled. His shows are huge and he must employ an entourage of people. So why hasn't he been exposed? |
The same could be said of Peter Popoff or any of the other grifters known as televangelists. The fact is that the employees are either in on the con, or themselves deceived.| The tabloid papers would eat up the story and pay a great deal of money. |
Here's where you're dead wrong.The tabloids make money by reinforcing the woo, not by debunking it.
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Your dead right, what was I thinking.But some of that stuff is true
Originally posted by Kil
In his article on John Edwards called Deconstructing The Dead , Michael Shermer, after considering warm or hot readings by Edwards (something he doesn't rule out based on his experience at a taping of Crossing Over) concludes: |
Im a big Shermer fan, I missed that one. Thanks for the link.
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Paul C. |
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Psychic John Edward
