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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2008 : 11:20:34 [Permalink]
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But one can not forget that Israel IS part of the problem and that it has violated more of the UN resolutions than any nations in history; and that is despite the fact that the US has used its vetoing power more times than any other nation, and that many of these times were to block resolution detrimental to Israel.
Fact is that Israel is not going to go away, and most Arab powers now accept that (even if not all of them are going to say so publicly). Even the Hammas all but accepted Israel existence.
That's a great start but now its Israel's turn to make compromises.
Israel needs to accept the fact that every times it violates a border to bomb a terrorist camps, it's infuriating the local populations. Each time it passes over the head of the local governments, Israel essentially send the message to the Palestinian that their government is useless and that only terrorism can force concessions out.
Israel also need to realize that there is now 4 millions of Palestinian refugees that have been living for 60 years in the most squalid conditions in camps build only for temporary housing. These refugees have to look at their enemies leaving on the land they consider their own and constitute the most fertile ground imaginable for terrorism and with reasons.
Peace won't be achieved until a solution can be reached for this refugees, and that probably means letting them come back to Palestine...
That is not going to be easy as welcoming these refugees will mean welcoming whole terrorist networks... but it needs to be done, I think, if we want to reach a long term solution...
Thing is, Israel now needs to go for a politic of appeasement vis a vis of the Palestinian population and to treat the Palestinian government with respect as an equal partner.
That's not going to be easy, especially as neighbouring countries like Iran and Syria have their own political interest in seeing the war continue...
But, for peace to stand a chance, Israel will have to take one (or many) for the team, and stick to a policy of appeasement for many years despite provocations from the Palestinian extremists.
On the other hand, I think it would be necessary to keep these provocations to a minimum... The Palestinian authority is often too weak or corrupt to control the extremists; so I think an international force would be required.
These force should probably not include Israel or US troops, as they would essentially be targets but a contingency of soldiers from moderate Arab nations, alongside, maybe, some Western countries that are respected by Palestinian like France, might help...
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Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
 Posted - 05/27/2008 : 11:47:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
Great and what about the 100,000,000 folks who are adamant about wiping Isreal off the map?
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#1. I don't believe that's an accurate assessment of the situation. The extremists would have us all believe every Arab in the middle east is a knife weilding jew murderer waiting for an opportunity. Nothing is that simple.
#2. Even if that assessment were completely accurate, how many people can you murder with several score atom bombs? Like it or not, these folks are in the same sand box and while one side has the numbers, the other's got a really big stick. Eventually they'll figure out life is better for everyone if they can find a way to address grievences to mutual (dis?)satisfaction.
#3. A key stumbling block, as far as I can tell, is the apparent misery of millions of displaced Palestinians. Not just those that are defacto imprisoned in Gaza and the West Bank, but those living in refugee camps (towns, really...) in neighboring countries. At some point and depending on where they are living now they either have to A. be allowed full rights in their host nations, B. be allowed to join some sort of Palestinian state, or C. be allowed to go home to their land in Isreal, presumably becoming Israeli citizens. As it is now, they're a collective pawn used to whip up and maintain anger and resentment at Israelis. A key question - are second and third generation refugees still refugees or are they more properly citizens of the nation where they were born?
#4. It appers overall Isreal has given very little in the "peace process," mostly because they haven't had to / don't have a real incentive to. US pressure could change that.
Regarding the rest of the 'Fertile Cressant,' energy self-reliance is the solution to all our woes. As soon as we don't need (want) to exploit what they have, then we stop supporting their dictators and stop riling their fundies. We pick up our toys and play in our own sandbox and we let them play by their own rules in their own back yard. Problem solved. |
-Chaloobi
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 08:42:49 [Permalink]
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As far as number three is concerned; I don't think the refugees will get full right within their countries anytime soon.
They constitute such a mass of people that they would dramatically alter the demography of the countries in question (they constitute almost 45% of the Jordan's population, for example).
The debate around doing so is what precipitated the civil war in Lebanon for example.
Additionally, several countries manipulate and use the issue of these refugees to justify their policy in the region. The Arab League, for example, passed asked her members to refuse to grant citizenship to Palestinian and Syria simply refuse their entry.
The Palestinian authority has most certainly be suspected of doing that at time. And Hammas too that often constitute the de facto government in several of these camps (not only organizing the 'army' but also in charge of many government functions like education and the health sector...).
On the other hand, the few countries allied to the US are logically worried about these aliens and their allegiance.
For example, Kuwait kicked out nearly 400 000 refugees after the first Gulf War.
The refugees are in a pretty terrible situation and, paradoxically, the only party that really have an interest in solving their crisis would be their worst enemy... |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 12:09:02 [Permalink]
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| The refugees are a great club to beat Isreal over the head with and nobody at odds with Isreal's going to take an interest in helping these people. The more difficult their lives are, the more trouble Isreal has. Never mind the misery of the regugees themselves... |
-Chaloobi
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Mclaughlin: Isreal/Palestine
