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Orwellingly Yurz
SFN Regular
USA
529 Posts |
 Posted - 05/19/2008 : 12:57:37
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YO:
“To love our enemies cannot mean that we must connive with their injustice. It does mean that beyond all moral distinctions of history we must know ourselves one with our enemies not only in the bonds of common humanity but also in the bonds of common guilt by which that humanity has become corrupted.”
---Reinhold Niebuhr, 1942
Orwellingly Yurz.
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"The modern conservative...is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy. That is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
--John Kenneth Galbraith
If dogs run free
Then what must be,
Must be...
And that is all
--Bob Dylan
The neo-cons have gotten welfare for themselves down to a fine art.
--me
"The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights."
--J. Paul Getty
"The great thing about Art isn't what it give us, but what we become through it."
--Oscar Wilde
"We have Art in order not to die of life."
--Albert Camus
"I cling like a miser to the freedom I lose when surrounded by an abundance of things."
--Albert Camus
"Experience is the name so many people give to their mistakes."
--Oscar Wilde |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2008 : 10:45:48 [Permalink]
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OY.....
Think about Reinhold Niebuhr for a while! A prominent and influential Christian theologian, his early years were strongly socialistic, almost communistic; he was an outspoken pacifist for a while and then did a complete turnaround and supported war as a response to despotism!| In the rise of fascism and the horrors of World War II in Europe, Niebuhr saw an evil which demanded opposition by force, even by Christians. Taking this lesson further, he wrote concerning the need for a form of democracy that would empower people and rid the world of the human sin of lording power over others. |
His political philosophy is suggested by this quote from wiki:| In the beginnings of his work as a vocal social justice proponent, he was a strong democratic socialist. Having once railed against Franklin Delano Roosevelt's New Deal as being unattainable, after the war Niebuhr became more pragmatic and began to support the New Deal and the Vital Center of the Democratic Party. Niebuhr's work was a great voice within the rising tide of welfare capitalism. |
LINK to quotations
A real leader in the early days of classic liberalism!
The OP quotation was made in the darkest days of WWII when a Nazi and totalitarian tide seemed to be sweeping the world. US citizens were encouraged to hate the Nazis and the "Japs". Niebuhr's statement was a voice of reason countering the hatemongering so common in those days - yet he fully supported the use of whatever force was necessary to oppose the Axis powers!
Religiously deluded, as are all theologians, but a great spokesman for the core values of liberal thought to which most of us subscribe! |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 03:47:33 [Permalink]
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I have always had an issue with that "love thine enemy" nonsense. If the enemy was worthy of love, he wouldn't be an enemy then, would he? And not to forget, only a few enemies are met on the battlefield; the rest are the ones who build them and are the bitterest and most treacherous of all.
I've never read Niebuhr; guess I'll look him up.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Orwellingly Yurz
SFN Regular
USA
529 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 12:09:52 [Permalink]
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YO, Filthy: Responding to your sign-off about Velma Barfield being the first woman to be injected lethally: Charlie Brooks, Jr. was the first PERSON to get the Big Needle in 1982. Karla Faye Tucker was another woman who was killed with chemicals, in 1998. Both of
these inmates were executed at Huntsville, TX. There's a new TV documentary to air on the IFC Cable Channel on Thursday, May 29th, 9pm ET/PT. It's called "At the Death House Door." All the action is at Huntsville, where else? OY! |
"The modern conservative...is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy. That is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
--John Kenneth Galbraith
If dogs run free
Then what must be,
Must be...
And that is all
--Bob Dylan
The neo-cons have gotten welfare for themselves down to a fine art.
--me
"The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights."
--J. Paul Getty
"The great thing about Art isn't what it give us, but what we become through it."
--Oscar Wilde
"We have Art in order not to die of life."
--Albert Camus
"I cling like a miser to the freedom I lose when surrounded by an abundance of things."
--Albert Camus
"Experience is the name so many people give to their mistakes."
--Oscar Wilde |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 14:46:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
I have always had an issue with that "love thine enemy" nonsense. If the enemy was worthy of love, he wouldn't be an enemy then, would he? And not to forget, only a few enemies are met on the battlefield; the rest are the ones who build them and are the bitterest and most treacherous of all... |
"May God deliver us from our friends; we can handle the enemy" - Gen. George Patton, US 3rd Army |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 15:00:33 [Permalink]
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Filthy.....
| I've never read Niebuhr; guess I'll look him up. |
Filth, if you decide to seriously dig Niebuhr, read his seminal work, The Nature and Destiny of Man.
To reach the roots of his philosophy, remember the framework of Augustinian theology - The City of God - and particularly, revisit Spinoza, Einstein's philosophical mentor. Spinoza's determinism is evident in much of Niebuhr's writing. Perhaps his most famous utterance was the Serenity Prayer written in the early forties, and quickly adopted as a mantra by Alcoholics Anonymous:
God, give us grace to accept with serenity
the things that cannot be changed,
Courage to change the things that should be changed,
and the wisdom to distinguish the one from the other. |
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Vegeta
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2008 : 18:39:05 [Permalink]
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I always preferred this one:
| Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women |
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What are you looking at? Haven't you ever seen a pink shirt before?
"I was asked if I would do a similar sketch but focusing on the shortcomings of Islam rather than Christianity. I said, 'No, no I wouldn't. I may be an atheist but I'm not stupid.'" - Steward Lee |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2008 : 20:47:10 [Permalink]
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| You're a tough sun'bich, Vegetable! Republican? |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26031 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2008 : 21:04:47 [Permalink]
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Actually, let me fix that for you, Vegeta:| To crush your enemies, see dem driven before you, and to hear da lamentation of da women |
I think that gets the accent correctly.
(The guy asking the question has a McLaughlin vibe going on!) |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Think About This One For A While
