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Dr Shari
Skeptic Friend
135 Posts |
 Posted - 04/19/2002 : 02:07:54
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I recently had a 53 year old woman come to me for a referral to a clinic that would help her get pregnant because she had married a man 20 years her junior and wanted a child with him. That is 3 years older then I am and I know I could not nor would I want to try and be a mother at my age. In my book it is time for grandchildren not parenthood.
With the progress in reproductive medicine and women in their 60's having children with the help of donor eggs and in vitro fertilization the impossible is now at least in reach of some women.
In France a women in her late 50's herself and with the help of a surrogate had two children with her brother to keep the family fortune from going to relatives they were feuding with. The French government took the children from the brother-sister couple much to my delight.
I have always thought it unfair that men can father children almost continuously until death but we women were restricted to a finite period but isn't that the way it should be? Should children be raised by parents too old to have the time and energy to put the effort it to child rearing be doing it at all?
This goes to people who didn't make the time while still fertile suddenly adopting infants also.
Perhaps I am biased because I did have my children while in college and still managed to finish Med School with the reassurance from my kids that they never felt ignored because of the time I was busy studying and starting my practice. I made time to have it all while still young and the thought of starting now to have babies and raising small children seems selfish and not the way nature meant it to be.
Just because we can do it should we? I recently spent the day with my almost 3 YO grandson and 17 month old twin granddaughters and I am sure I could not start over now.
Death: The High Cost of Living
It is easier to get forgiveness then to get permission!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2002 : 04:57:10 [Permalink]
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I think that we should not.
What we'd most likely end up with is a cranky, old woman eventually trying to cope with adolescents. And the teen years! Yikes!
As the single parent (male) of 2 daughters, both with kids of their own now, I can tell you that it ain't easy, even for younger folks.
Hey Doc, we haven't heard from you for a while. How goes it?
f
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."--Benjamin Franklin, _Poor_Richard_, 1758
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PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2002 : 06:01:49 [Permalink]
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I don't know if I would begrudge older women the opportunity to have children based on how I think they might handle teenagers. I'm not saying I would recommend it but I don't think I would condemn it either.
However, I would point out that numerous congenital conditions are associated with elevated age of the mother. Down's Syndrome comes to mind as something that is many times more likely to occur to a child of a mother over 40. This is a much more important reason to think twice, IMO.
Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous.
-D. Hume |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2002 : 15:39:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
I recently had a 53 year old woman come to me for a referral to a clinic that would help her get
Forget about that idiot woman, who wants to have children in the 1st place no mater what age.
Doc. I'm so glad to see you again. Haven't noticed any posts from you lately. Was getting worried. Sent you an email, don't recall a reply. Would like to talk to you. So relieved now to know you are there...here, where ever.
nlm
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*Carabao forever. |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2002 : 08:36:36 [Permalink]
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To put it bluntly, I think these women are nuts. Have a baby at 50? Give me a break. I've heard the excuse "Ooo I suddenly feel so nuturing, I have to have a baby". Guess what? There's scores of kids out there who've already managed to be born who need stable loving foster and adoptive homes.
Lisa
If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room. |
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Dr Shari
Skeptic Friend
135 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2002 : 13:59:43 [Permalink]
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I do have reservations about the reasons many people who want children are having them. I did because I thought I would make a good mother(bad reason) and my children turned out alright but I see other people who are convinced they are or were good parents who's kids are out of control or just unhappy. I admit children are a lot of work for everyone involved and maybe reproduction should require a license but it doesn't.
I did send this woman to a high risk OB practice. The county I practice in has the highest rate of in-vitro births in the nation and the highest number of multiple births (I have twin granddaughters myself) and they get psych consults on all their patients so hopefully she will realize having children will not keep her younger husband interested or keep her young.
The practice of older women using donated eggs because theirs are too old bothers me also. They are not having children of their own just going through the experience at such an age is dangerous. I admit though that I do not have as big a problem with donated sperm but in a way it is almost the same thing as baby selling when money is given to create a child. Surrogates having and giving up children is just as scary to me and fraught with questions of legal rights and responsibilities.
These medical ethics need to be decided by the medical community but we have shown that if it can be done we will do it.
Death: The High Cost of Living
It is easier to get forgiveness then to get permission! |
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scumbagio
New Member
Canada
12 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2002 : 18:31:26 [Permalink]
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I was adopted by older parents. My mother and father were both in their 50's when they adopted me. I'm sure it was cute to have a baby around the house again, but unfortunatley after the novelty wore off which was way before my pre-teen to teen years. I was left basically without parent figures. As a preteen I wanted someone who would come to my baseball game, to come to fahter-son things. That didn't happen of course. And, in my teens they played no role as well. Not that I would have wanted them anywhere I was so my friends could ask what I was doing with my grandparents. Now, i Love my parents very much, but I also "missed them" when I needed them most.
"The truth is seen through keyholes" |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2002 : 01:19:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
I was adopted by older parents. My mother and father were both in their 50's when they adopted me
My parents were 'older' parents, for their time. Now days it's not uncommon to have children in your mid to late 30's but back in the 50's I think most people didn't. My father was always being mistaken for my grandfather, and being prematurely gray didn't help but I never paid attention to it after the 1st few times when I was old enough to understand. He took us fishing and did all kinds of fun things with us, I never noticed that he couldn't keep up like a younger father. My mother was 41 when my younger sister was born. My x-sister was an unplanned mistake, damn I wish my mother would have had an abortion. Whatever! But they were very close and my mother sewed dresses for her and did things with her. I don't think she felt like she didn't have a mother to look up to. I guess everyone has a different story. LOL, I didn't have a mother for other reasons but not because of any age difference.
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*Carabao forever. |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2002 : 09:31:05 [Permalink]
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This thread on post / menopausal women wanting babies has a lot in common with a recent thread about the two English lesbians who had the "designer" deaf baby. There are people out there who want really strange medical procedures preformed on them. In our replies we concentrate on the motives of the individuals and ignore the fact that they all need facilitators.
During the last election I received half a dozen mailings from the San Francisco Transsexual Democratic Club (time to switch party affiliations). That means that there are enough transsexuals here to become a political force. Now a Transsexual is someone who has decided that they really aren't the sex they were born with and have their sexual organs mutilated into a parody of those of the opposite sex. The cliché of mental illness is someone who thinks that they are not who they actually are (some one who thinks they are Napoleon comes to mind; or 'my brother thinks he's a chicken. We'd take him to the Psychiatrist but we need the eggs.') And yet there are doctors who will happily whittle away at these people's "privates" seemingly without any concern about the person's mental stability.
That's the point with all of these cases--mental stability. With the menopausal women, as I've learned from my friends and family it can be rough. The most brilliant person I know has been, for the better part of a year now, on a hormonal roller coaster ride. Things she decides now (and she knows it-I get lengthy e-mails from the east coast) she may well wonder what she was thinking of once the ride is over. ( see scumbagio, above)
So what are the ethics here? These people can't do these self-destructive things to themselves. When a 60 year old woman wants a baby, or a 25 year old guy wants his penis chopped off, is it a doctor's duty to see that they get what they want? Or is it to see that they receive psychiatric help?
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It will sometimes be necessary to use falsehood for the benefit of those who need such a mode of treatment.
----Eusebius of Nicomedia,
The Preparation of the Gospel |
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2002 : 11:03:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
So what are the ethics here? These people can't do these self-destructive things to themselves. When a 60 year old woman wants a baby, or a 25 year old guy wants his penis chopped off, is it a doctor's duty to see that they get what they want? Or is it to see that they receive psychiatric help?
But who are we to decide what is right or good or normal for them. When a woman for example wants to have breast implants who decides wether to just give her an operation or give her conuling to allow her to live with the body she has?
I say that as long as nobody else gets affected by their strange desires it is OK to give them as much freedom to express their odities as they want. Many people disagree there because somebody that wants to have their body mutiliated clearly can't be in their right mind. So we should ignore their wishes for their own good. That is why tattoos and pearcings should be outlawed, right? (Not to mention drugs like heroin, canabis, nikotin and alcohol.)
Unfortunetly the cases in question are even more complicated here is not just one live at stake but also the future of the child.
We should protect the children from the fancies of their parents shouldn't we? But then again we allow worse things than that to be done to children by their parets everyday and their would be an outcry if the government try to regulate some of them.
And what do we do if the children when they have grown up are going to sue their parents and doctors? As long as there are lawyers running free in this world it is just a question of time untill that happens.
My take is give them what they want if they can pay for it and you can make sure that you are not going to get sued later on. But I am no doctor my opinon does not count for much.
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2002 : 12:00:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
But who are we to decide what is right or good or normal for them.
That's a bit of a cop out, we do it all the time. In fact it's part of medical doctors job description to do just that.
People are prevented from killing or injuring themselves on a daily bases because they are judged mentally unstable.
A few months ago a fellow here in the States cut of his own hand because the bible instructed him to do so. It "offended" him by masturbating. He used an axe.
He was committed, the hand was not reattached.
The political club I previously mentioned employed Doctors to perform their amputations.
How do we work the ethics? Would it have been ethical to surgically remove the Christians hand because he truely believed it was "evil"? (I think my HMO covers that)
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It will sometimes be necessary to use falsehood for the benefit of those who need such a mode of treatment.
----Eusebius of Nicomedia,
The Preparation of the Gospel |
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