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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
 Posted - 05/11/2002 : 21:42:50
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I'm not sure this is different enough to be in a separate topic from the sex abuse by clergy topic, but here goes; from: http://www.pressconnects.com/wednesday/opinion/stories/op050802s102282.shtml br /
quote:
The Vatican, a day earlier had, according to the wire story, stressed the need for Catholics to confess their sins -- but said some "habitual" sinners could never be forgiven.
"The Vatican didn't identify who these sinners were, but theological experts said Pope John Paul II was referring to homosexuals and divorced Catholics who remarry. The pope said last week priests implicated in the sex abuse scandal can be forgiven," the wire story read.
quote:
Well, Jane read that story when she got home from work last Friday. Then she took a couple of Tylenol, which didn't help much, and then she called me.
"I was born a Catholic, raised a Catholic and was married in the Catholic Church," she said. "Now I'm being divorced by my husband who has gone off with another woman and the pope is telling me that if I should someday decide to remarry then I'm worse than a pedophile priest?"
quote:
But back to Jane M. She is ready to part company with a church, the current leadership of which, she believes, has lost touch with reality; one that apparently regards divorce and remarriage as worse than carnal abuse of children.
"It blows my mind," she said. "I am about to become a divorced Catholic and not by my own doing. Yet if I should someday want to remarry I would be committing an unpardonable sin. They (priests guilty of pedophilia) can be forgiven a heinous act but I can't."
Her only recourse, Jane said, would be to purchase an annulment of the marriage that is about to be dissolved, a process whereby her virginity might be restored but, regrettably, her children's legitimacy would be revoked. She is not about to go that route.
"I've been betrayed by my husband," she said, "Now I'm being betrayed by the church; the faith I was born and raised in."
This has got to be either arrogance, or the church is REALLY out of contact with society. (then again, neither thing is new, is it?)
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James
SFN Regular
USA
754 Posts |
 Posted - 05/12/2002 : 05:20:39 [Permalink]
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It also doesn't help that the Vatican is an independent nation. All they'd have to do is close the borders and nothing'd get in nor out.
Can't believe I'm saying this, but I wish a youngun'd become Pope...
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Two more years...Two more years...Two more years...Two more years...Two more years...
*whine* |
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2002 : 09:05:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
It also doesn't help that the Vatican is an independent nation. All they'd have to do is close the borders and nothing'd get in nor out.
Can't believe I'm saying this, but I wish a youngun'd become Pope...
Huh? What has the fact that the vatican is a nation to do with anything? I thought this article was about the hypocrosy of the catholic church? And they could not just close down the borders to the rest of Rome. Do you have any idea how big the vatican is. Without divine intervention they could not survive more then a few hours if they closed down the borders.
And what do you mean with 'youngun'd become Pope'? If you are waiting for the next papal election, experts say it is less then a year away. Unfortunetly the next pope is going to be elected by and from the very people we are now all angry at.
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Physiofly
Skeptic Friend
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2002 : 17:29:56 [Permalink]
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Not surprisingly, the Catholic church can change the rules as it pleases. Apparently my Catholic wife's priest told her that it's not considered a sin to divorce an atheist. How convenient...
"Men are so simple and so much inclined to obey immediate needs that a
deceiver will never lack victims for his deceptions." - Niccolo Machiavelli
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2002 : 23:24:19 [Permalink]
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Could someone clear up a tiny point of law for me? Apparently Cardinal Law is giving taped deposition to be used in a possible case at a later date. Some legal spokeman said something to the effect, they have to, because if he goes to the Vatican, we may not be able to get him back. Am I missing something here? If his passport is yanked, he'll be here for as long as it takes. What's the problem?
Lisa
If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room. |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2002 : 12:36:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
If his passport is yanked, he'll be here for as long as it takes. What's the problem?
Lisa
He's a Cardinal in a Theocracy. That's exactly the same rank as being a Prince in a Monarchy. He has diplomatic immunity even though he was born here.
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My business is to teach my aspirations to conform themselves to fact, not to try and make facts harmonize with my aspirations. ---Thomas Henry Huxley, 1860 |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2002 : 12:56:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
This has got to be either arrogance, or the church is REALLY out of contact with society. (then again, neither thing is new, is it?)
Yes it is new, and you have it slightly backwards.
The RC Church is not out of step with society. It hasn't changed it's rules at all. Society has gotten out of step with the church.
That's one of the claims that Xians like to make on these threads--morality comes from god and doesn't change over time. Of course all the Xians who have claimed that here were Protestants and Prots give their own interpretation of what god has to say. Catholics never do that but recieve the exact-never changing- meaning of gods word through the church.
These rules that this woman is complaining about have always been the church's moral teachings.
The problem is--morals, like everything else, evolve. The morals of society have become closer to being actually "moral" than those morals that are god's rules. This woman is like a person who is playing chess but wants to move her pawns backwards. The game has certain rules that you have to follow if you want to play.
With any luck she will dislike the rules of the Xian morals game enough to quite playing. Realizing that she is a more moral person (by today's standards) than Jesus was might be just the boost she needs.
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My business is to teach my aspirations to conform themselves to fact, not to try and make facts harmonize with my aspirations. ---Thomas Henry Huxley, 1860 |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2002 : 13:10:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
If his passport is yanked, he'll be here for as long as it takes. What's the problem?
Lisa
He's a Cardinal in a Theocracy. That's exactly the same rank as being a Prince in a Monarchy. He has diplomatic immunity even though he was born here.
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My business is to teach my aspirations to conform themselves to fact, not to try and make facts harmonize with my aspirations. ---Thomas Henry Huxley, 1860
Well, thanks for the answer. I think its screwy and I can't say I like it too much.
Okay, how about this: after he gives his deposition, and the gov't yank his immunity, deport him to the Vatican?
Sorry, but this guy just gets me streamed. He knew he had pedophiles working for them, and he helped cover it up. He may not be the one who personally abused kids, but he certainly should be held accountable. Other people who commit crimes in this counry don't have a pope's skirts to hide behind.
Lisa
If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room. |
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Kaneda Kuonji
Skeptic Friend
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2002 : 22:09:47 [Permalink]
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Lucky for me, I am an agnostic...blech...yep, I think think that the church has lost touch with reality, and that those who are fed up should rightfully leave...
The church leadership...one more thing that happens when people have too much happy happy nose candy!
Rodney Dean, CI Order of the Knights of Jubal
Ivbalis.org
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andysnape
New Member
United Kingdom
39 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2002 : 03:44:01 [Permalink]
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I assume you've never been to Italy before so you need some informing. Yes the Vatican City is an independent nation, but only in name. Just about everything to do with a nations policies is controlled by Italy (defence, economy, foreign policy etc). As for closing the border, they would need quite a few gates to encircle Ster Peters Basillica. I'm afraid what you've just said is total and utter nonsense.
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It also doesn't help that the Vatican is an independent nation. All they'd have to do is close the borders and nothing'd get in nor out.
Can't believe I'm saying this, but I wish a youngun'd become Pope...
________________________
Two more years...Two more years...Two more years...Two more years...Two more years...
*whine*
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