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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 05/22/2002 : 10:32:04 [Permalink]
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Shoot 'er down, @tomic. KC has long since bored me to distraction. I very much doubt that he has anything further to add (I'm being generous, here. I've yet to see anything solid from him - have I missed something?)
Catch y'all on another thread.
f
"He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice."
- Albert Einstein
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Kacey
Skeptic Friend
USA
99 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2002 : 10:55:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
[size=6]Still waiting
Kacey
I've read the end of the bible....the Christians win.
So are we...FOR THE DAMN BONES!
BTW, you lose.
________________________
Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7 of your life.
Two more years...Two more years...Two more years...Two more years...Two more years...
*whine*
For dino blood web sites, check ut the following:
click here
and click here
and here
and also here
...and the sites go on and on.
Kacey
I've read the end of the bible....the Christians win. |
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Kacey
Skeptic Friend
USA
99 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2002 : 10:59:39 [Permalink]
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Trish posted (moderator)
I have no intention of going back and pulling all your ad hominem attacks out of the posts.
OK Trish...find one ad-hom I posted. Then look at the amount your buddies posted about me.
Hint, clean your own house.
NEXT
Kacey
I've read the end of the bible....the Christians win. |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2002 : 11:10:17 [Permalink]
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Why should she waste her time when you will just deny the obvious anyway? Kacey....the kettle is black though you insist it's red.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2002 : 11:35:10 [Permalink]
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For dino blood web sites, check ut the following:
click here
and click here
and here
and also here
...and the sites go on and on.
Kacey
All of these claims, on Creationist sites I might add, have been debunked. I think that talkorigons has some essays on it.
But, I am a reasonable man. Where might I and my good friend, Jack Horner examine this unfossilized and bloody bone? And why has it not been offered for mainstream, scientific review. Were it to be proved genuine, the Theory of Evolution would be set on it's ear.
Actually, I've never had the honor of meeting Jack Horner, but I'd bet three months morgage payments that he'd be interested to the point of fixation were this bone to be offered to science, as it should be. If it's even thought to be real.
Further question: If this is the McCoy, where are the rest of them? There should be a LOT more. Weathering and rodent damage couldn't have destroyed them all because there were a LOT of species of dinosaurs, a great many that have yet to be identified. A great many remains would have been buried. If it were indeed true, we'd probably be turning them up in our gardens every time we ran the Roto-Tiller through, as I have with Indian arrowheads.
Actually, I kinda'/sorta' of expected this cannonball to come flying through.
f
"He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice."
- Albert Einstein
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2002 : 11:43:25 [Permalink]
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I realize that you don't actually want any explantion and that giving you one will not change have any effect, but I will try to give you an explanation anyway.
The Dino-blood story has been around some time and has been refuted and explaine, but continues to be printed in creationists books.
From a review of one of Ken Ham by a christian:
1. Dinosaur Blood???
Three times in this revised book there is the reference to dinosaur blood being found (86, 193, 246-7). The key article that is quoted is "The Real Jurassic Park" by Mary Schweitzer and Tracy Staedter and published in Earth, June 1997, pages 55-57. It seems to me that Ken Ham has not read this article very carefully.
First of all, the article does not claim to have found dinosaur blood. The authors conclude, "So far, we think that all the evidence supports the notion that our slices of T. rex could contain preserved heme and hemoglobin fragments. But more work needs to be done before we are confident enough to come right out and say, 'Yes, this T. rex has blood compounds left in its tissues'"(p.57).
Secondly, blood cells can easily fall apart, but the proteins heme and hemoglobin can survive for a very long time. A heme is a very stable structure of a ring like organic compound called porphyrin bound to an iron atom (p.56). Porphyrins have been found in sediments dating back to the Carboniferous Period which was 286 million years ago (p.56). This is at least 100 million years before T. rex. So it should not be surprising to find heme.
Thirdly, there are major problems in finding dino DNA because DNA is everywhere. The authors state, "Indeed, running the T. rex bone through a battery of tests, we discovered DNA--but it was the DNA of fungi, bacteria and insects, clearly not of dinosaurs" (p.56).
Finally, there is a lack of understanding of the formation of fossils. The T. rex bone is called "fresh" as if the T. rex just recently died (p.246). The dinosaur bones are also called "Unmineralized ('Unfossilized')" (p.193). This is simply not true. Most of the bone was mineralized except deep down inside the bone (p.55), probably because water had penetrated the inside of the bone.
Process of Fossilization
1. Original Organic material ------
2. Permineralization------ A continuing process where: a. Water causes chemical reactions to change organic to inorganic material. b. Bacteria causes chemical reactions to change organic to inorganic material.
3. Petrification----This is where the organic material has been completely (100%) turned into inorganic material-stone.
This process can take a very very long time, or a relatively short time if conditions are right.
In conclusion, finding dinosaur heme or hemoglobin does not mean that dinosaurs lived recently, since these proteins can survive for a very very long time. ---written by Dr. Stephen C. Meyers 1-2-2001.
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jmcginn
Skeptic Friend
343 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2002 : 12:44:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Trish posted (moderator)
I have no intention of going back and pulling all your ad hominem attacks out of the posts.
[red]OK Trish...find one ad-hom I posted. Then look at the amount your buddies posted about me.
Hint, clean your own house.
[size=6]NEXT
Kacey
I've read the end of the bible....the Christians win.
Well well well, the style of this reply reminds me of someone, that along with the selective replies (in other words not reply to anything resembling evidence).
Hello YEC.
The red text, the blatant all caps NEXT.
The similarities are amazing:
Example 1
His arguments and style are the same.
He used the strike-out technique.
He ended allot of his post with the all caps and often red NEXT. (or that was his entire post).
And he felt like talking to a dead log. No intelligent replies.
LOL
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Xev
Skeptic Friend
USA
329 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2002 : 13:03:56 [Permalink]
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Okay, come clean now Kaycey - you're an 'evo' yourself, trolling as a YEC to have a little fun with us.
'S okay. I've trolled as a fundie before. Very funny. Very good disguise too - I didn't catch it, and I'm fairly good at this (if I do say so myself)
So, Kayce, who are you?
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!Go Wings!
- Cthulhu Saves! - |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2002 : 13:07:06 [Permalink]
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Good detective work! That's one thing about distinctive style...it gives you away sometimes. These people use the same phrases, terms and text types. I would bet money they are one in the same. I could do things to be 100% sure but I have my limits when it comes to personal privacy.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Antie
Skeptic Friend
USA
101 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2002 : 13:42:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Given that 'Maat' was the Egyptian goddess of truth, I think you have somthing there.
That's right. M3` also means "true." The ancient Egyptians didn't write vowels in their hieroglyphs.
quote:
I'm still waiting
We're waiting for some evidence.
Ian Andreas Miller. DIES GAUDII. |
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jmcginn
Skeptic Friend
343 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2002 : 13:51:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Good detective work! That's one thing about distinctive style...it gives you away sometimes. These people use the same phrases, terms and text types. I would bet money they are one in the same. I could do things to be 100% sure but I have my limits when it comes to personal privacy.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
I just noticed something else as well.
yecaK
hmmm very interesting indeed although I have my doubts he/she would be that clever.
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ktesibios
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2002 : 14:04:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
Given that 'Maat' was the Egyptian goddess of truth, I think you have somthing there.
That's right. M3` also means "true." The ancient Egyptians didn't write vowels in their hieroglyphs.
quote:
I'm still waiting
We're waiting for some evidence.
Ian Andreas Miller. DIES GAUDII.
So first I thought "how the Heck did he do that when there's no transliteration font here?"
Then I realized "Kewl! Transliteration in 1337 !"
Now that I've gussied it up with the Gardiner numbers for the determinative glyphs and formatting, about the only way to read it would be to plug it into a hieroglyphic text editor and read the hieroglyphic output (I bet Antie's already done so), so in case anyone is wondering, the text would transcribe into English spelling like this:
Nen Djedenek em maat
Nen gemtu renek emem aankhu
Which means "You have not spoken in truth. Your name is not found among the living" (i.e., the justified).
Just look at this place. It's gonna take all day for Xev to clean up.
Ford, there's an infinite number of monkeys outside who want to talk to us about this script for Hamlet they've worked out. |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2002 : 14:39:24 [Permalink]
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I'll take a shot at it. I've just stopped laughing after looking at these photos yesterday. Let me wipe the tears from my eyes.
(1)dragon slayers … the real demise of the dinosaurs.
The Reluctant Dragon was non-fiction? How about Winnie the Pooh?
(2) For example one look very much like a picture of a dinosaur fighting a mammoth.
Picture of 2 bison.
(3)The ancient Sumatrans .. art depicting … hadrosaurs.
Chickens
(4)A Mesopotamian cylinder seal dated at 3300 BC. has depictions of a saurapod on it.
Showing absolutely no signs of age or wear. Engraved with power tools. Design lifted from illustration border design in The Dinosaurs by William Stout © 1981
(5)An urn from Caria… depecting mosasaurus
It's a shark
(6) petroglyph … what appears to be dinosaurs,
Lichen on stone.
(7)Old Egyptian seals depecting dinosaur like creatures
Nile Crocodile
(8)Cave painting found throught the word have been found with what appears to be pictures of dinosaurs painted on the walls.
Photo of smudge on a rock wall next to modern illustration of dinosaur
(9)Many clay figurines of dinosaurs buried at the foot of El Toro Mountain on the outskirts of Acambaro, Mexico have been found.
Despite pre-Colombian dates given on web site these are obviously little clay toys made by modern children who rolled "clay snakes" in their hands and stuck little cartoon feet on them. Bears absolutely no resemblance to pre-Colombian art.
(10) Depictions of dinosaurs on ancient Ican stones have been found.
Only if the ancient Incas worked in art deco.
Now my questions. Why such obvious frauds? If what you are trying to do is get people to understand the TRUTH then why resort to fraud? What is to be gained by that? The people who made these things know they are fakes, what do they hope to gain?
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My business is to teach my aspirations to conform themselves to fact, not to try and make facts harmonize with my aspirations. ---Thomas Henry Huxley, 1860 |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2002 : 15:00:55 [Permalink]
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They are counting on people being even more stupid than they are. Fortunately that is not possible.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2002 : 16:05:51 [Permalink]
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Hey slater,
Beautiful, ain't it?! I thought I'd seen the sauropod motif somewhere, but couldn't remember. Also, I've read where the Inca stones depicting dinosaurs were something of a cottage industry aimed at lightening tourist wallets; a fairly successful one, if I remember right. I tried to find the artical, but couldn't, so didn't mention it.
Thanks for the break down.
f
"He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice."
- Albert Einstein
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