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Satan
New Member
USA
27 Posts |
 Posted - 07/22/2002 : 19:04:00
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Poll Question:
One of the most apparent propositions is that we exist. It is also one of the most complex if disputed. David Hume suggested that the only thing proven to exist is thought, and that we cannot even assume that there is a thinker! What do you think? What can we be sure exists?
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| Results: |
| Thoughts Only (Hume Rocks!) |
 [0%] |
0 votes |
| Myself (Cogito, Ergo Sum) |
[14%] |
2 votes |
| The Physical World (Materialism) |
[43%] |
6 votes |
| The Mind |
[7%] |
1 vote |
| Body And Mind |
[0%] |
0 votes |
| Everything That Is Perceived |
[21%] |
3 votes |
| None Of The Above |
[14%] |
2 votes |
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Poll Status:
Locked »» |
Total Votes: 14 counted »» |
Last Vote:
06/28/2005 18:54:59 |
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PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2002 : 19:54:42 [Permalink]
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Hume was a funny guy sometimes. 'Thoughts' are by definition the outcomes of thinking.
Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous.
-D. Hume |
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Satan
New Member
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2002 : 20:07:27 [Permalink]
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Perhaps "thoughts" is an inaccurate term describing the phenomena, then. Should I employ "ideas" instead?
How do you know that an idea has to originate from a thinker?
Satan,
a.k.a. the Talking Snake Whom Atheists, Witches, Muslims, and Puerto Ricans Worship (If You Ask Anyone In This State) |
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PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2002 : 20:31:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
How do you know that an idea has to originate from a thinker?
We don't, of course, because it's a negative existential claim. We don't know there aren't un-thought ideas floating around in space. What we do have is an empirical case: 100% of the ideas we know about have come from a thinker.
Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous.
-D. Hume |
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Dr Shari
Skeptic Friend
135 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2002 : 03:34:39 [Permalink]
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As Spock on Star Trek pointed out in Vulcan Philosophy "Nothing unreal exists" There is no question as to existence to me. What I question is if thought exists. I see less and less proof of thought and just blind mindless existence.
Death: The High Cost of Living
It is easier to get forgiveness then to get permission! |
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2002 : 04:58:36 [Permalink]
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I am a pragmatic solipsist. I don't really see any proof that anything other then my own consciousness exists, but I am humoring what are possible my own delusions by playing along with this supposed reality.
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Satan
New Member
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2002 : 17:25:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
We don't, of course, because it's a negative existential claim. We don't know there aren't un-thought ideas floating around in space. What we do have is an empirical case: 100% of the ideas we know about have come from a thinker.
Perhaps we are being deceived when we believe in our physical existence. Perhaps the ideas we perceive do not really originate from any thinker, but only appear to.
Besides, give me one "empirical" observation of an idea, and prove to me that it originates from a thinker.
Satan,
a.k.a. the Talking Snake Whom Atheists, Witches, Muslims, and Puerto Ricans Worship (If You Ask Anyone In This State) |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2002 : 18:07:03 [Permalink]
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Satan:
quote:
Perhaps we are being deceived when we believe in our physical existence. Perhaps the ideas we perceive do not really originate from any thinker, but only appear to.
Besides, give me one "empirical" observation of an idea, and prove to me that it originates from a thinker.
Perhaps your own ideas do not originate from a *thinker*, but I shall leave all proofs that you actually made a statement to be up to you to verify. I am aware that a statement has been made and that I have observed the statement. If I had been a member of any other species, or a member of Homo Sapiens Sapiens who spoke and/or wrote only in another language, then I would would be totally unaware of your statement (if indeed you wrote one).
I will go with the scientists and believe in the physical world and in our ability to make some sense of it. You can go along believing that, perhaps, you are the only individual who can be certain of existence and not be actually certainly certain at that.
It makes no matter to me, because I shall keep being amazed by the scientific discoveries of other scientists, all of the time realizing that their ideas are not originating in my own head.
Suit yourself, but I think that such a notion is profound (deep, beyond understanding) and should be entered into very, very carefully to make certain that our (questionable) brains do not all fall out in the process.
In a certain number of months/years/decades I shall no longer exist, and such a question would not enter my decaying head at that time.
Cheers!
ljbrs   
"Nothing is more damaging to a new truth than an old error." Goethe |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2002 : 18:19:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Perhaps we are being deceived when we believe in our physical existence. Perhaps the ideas we perceive do not really originate from any thinker, but only appear to.
Besides, give me one "empirical" observation of an idea, and prove to me that it originates from a thinker.
I can think of a lot more satisfying way to masturbate. Perhaps I'm showing my age...
The Evil Skeptic
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous. |
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PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2002 : 19:40:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
We don't, of course, because it's a negative existential claim. We don't know there aren't un-thought ideas floating around in space. What we do have is an empirical case: 100% of the ideas we know about have come from a thinker.
Perhaps we are being deceived when we believe in our physical existence. Perhaps the ideas we perceive do not really originate from any thinker, but only appear to.
What's the difference if it's empirically unverifiable?
quote:
Besides, give me one "empirical" observation of an idea, and prove to me that it originates from a thinker.
Close your eyes and picture your mother. You are now observing an idea. The only ideas I can observe are those I am thinking.
Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous.
-D. Hume |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2002 : 19:19:35 [Permalink]
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Kil:
quote:
I can think of a lot more satisfying way to masturbate. Perhaps I'm showing my age...
I will bet that my age is older than yours. However, there will be no way to determine this, since I will not fill in the details about this as proof.
ljbrs
"Nothing is more damaging to a new truth than an old error." Goethe |
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Topic Locked
