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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
 Posted - 08/15/2002 : 13:01:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
I'm sorry for the long-winded post here, but I'm getting to a point. Let me ask: How do you want your friends and family to honor your life when you die, and, if those wishes preclude a religious memorial service, what legal measures have you taken to ensure that your wishes are followed?
"The amount of noise which anyone can bear stands in inverse proportion to his mental capacity." --Schopenhauer
Since I am religious, I would have much the same problems as it is not a mainstream religion. I have a bunch of stuff in my will which outlines what I want done with my body after I'm gone in a ceremony which is to give some comfort to the ones left behind. I told my wife as well. (She's the only one I can count on to actually carry out my wishes.) If they do it or not is immaterial. If they want to play with the shell I leave behind, thats fine. My charismatic Christian brother will think he has something over me. Big whip. I lived my life on my terms and followed my own path.
My advice is to blow it off. It's not like you are gonna have to be there for it. If it's that important to you, have it written in a notarized document and left with someone who you can count on to carry out your wishes. This person will have to be close by so that they will know when you die.
Jeez, this is getting morbid.
Cthulu/Asmodeus, when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2002 : 14:32:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
I just hope my kids were joking about making a few extra bucks by selling me to Alpho.
Geeses Krist Slater, I hope my boy doesn't read your post. All he wants is the money I have now. But hey, if he could make a few extra bucks I bet he'd do it too.
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*Carabao forever
*SAN FERNANDO VALLEY SECESSION - YES
*All lives are movie settings, it's what channel you're on that counts. Zatikia
*Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand.
Homer Jaye S. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2002 : 14:40:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
"It" is not a depressing thought. To feel bad about death is to feel bad about life. Death is part of life. To say that one "shouldn't" die is to say that one shouldn't live, or that life is not enough as it is. Life is. There are no gods to tell us that it "should" be something other than what it is.
Why choose to be depressed about it? How does that help one live a better life? Choose to appreciate life.
Feeling bad because you may die someday is like feeling bad that you don't have wings, or eight legs. You are human. Death is part of the definition of being human. You'd like to change that? Fine. Work to change that.
How poetic!
It's really true what they say, people aren't crying for the dead, it's just that they are selfish. They want the person to be with them. Or not to leave the people they want to be with. In my case I know that's true. I lost someone, the only one who's ever been so speical to me, when I was 15. I loved her and have cried ever since when I think about her. I guess you could call that depressing but I wish she was still here with me. As far as me leaving others, I couldn't care less.
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*Carabao forever
*SAN FERNANDO VALLEY SECESSION - YES
*All lives are movie settings, it's what channel you're on that counts. Zatikia
*Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand.
Homer Jaye S. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2002 : 15:04:06 [Permalink]
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Thanks, Snake.
Life can be difficult. When we feel "bad" about things, what are we saying? We're saying that reality shouldn't be reality. Or, we're saying that we're not enough to handle what comes to us. By whose standards? What gods are going to test us? By what heaven are we judging?
Not saying that it's wrong or stupid to feel bad, we all do it. Just calling it what it is. It's trying to emotionally force reality into being something that it isn't. In that sense, anger, depression, etc. is irrational. It's very rational in the sense that that's what we know how to do, but it's irrational in the sense that it says NO! to reality.
That's not to say that I never feel "bad" or that I think it's something that we "shouldn't" do.
An interesting article in Reader's Digest that was written by Ruth Bader Ginsburg about anger. I realized after reading it that most of our anger and irritations are simply habit. We think that there is some pot that's boiling inside of us, and we have to "let off steam" once in a while or it will blow up. It isn't true. It's a habit of thought.
I haven't had my children die or someone extremely close to me, so I'm not saying that I know everything about this and I'll never feel bad about things. That's not what I'm saying anyway. Having said that, however, when my father died, I didn't feel bad that he died, I felt honored that I was part of his life. Yes, I cried, but I cried from happiness because I realized what a valuable thing life can be.
quote:
How poetic!
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn
Edited by - gorgo on 08/15/2002 15:05:22 |
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Cosmic string
New Member
USA
37 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2002 : 15:48:03 [Permalink]
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Thank you again, Gorgo. That really helps put things in perspective. Am I correct to infer that the whole idea of stress "building up inside," is just a habitual way of trying to escape responsibility and reality? What you said explains a lot of things and I'm sure it is helpful to recognize it in "bad" times.
“The truths of religion are never so well understood as by those who have lost the power of reasoning.” --Voltaire |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2002 : 16:31:27 [Permalink]
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Some people here have chosen to take offense to some of my observations on this subject. I sort of assume that it's because they think I'm saying that it's wrong to be angry, or they're stupid because they feel "bad." Nothing could be further from the truth. I use the word "irrational" not to mean stupid, but to mean that one's beliefs are not based on reality. Certainly we want our loved ones to be with us. That has nothing to do with feeling "bad" when they're not. Am I not enough, is not reality enough as it is? What god says that it should be different? By what heaven do we judge reality?
Certainly, we will feel bad when some people are gone some of the time. Some of us will feel bad when they're there sometimes. Some of us will feel bad that we don't have wings. There seems to be little correlation between reality and feeling bad.
This is not to say that there is no such thing as clinical depression or that "feeling bad" because someone has knife in your back is irrational. I think the problem here is our limited vocabulary. But, my verbosity has far exceeded my vocabulary so I'll quit pomposifying.
quote:
Thank you again, Gorgo.
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
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Mr. Spock
Skeptic Friend
USA
99 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2002 : 17:09:02 [Permalink]
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I think that you are on the right track, too Gorgo. I am a third-generation victim of depression. I remember that I vowed never to succumb to this, seeing what my dad and Grandad went through (and what they put others through in the process). To make a long story short, it has become my daily battle. If I could rationally choose not to be depressed, believe me, I would (and I agree that many who claim to suffer depression are simply trying to put a label on their ordinary, every-day troubles rather than facing them rationally. The fact that most doctors would rather attach a label like "depression" or "bi-polar" to someone who is unhappy and prescribe some pill rather than indicating more positive resources with which to deal with their problems does not help).
What HAS helped me, aside from the occaisional chemical aid (which are usually worse than the problem itself) has been keeping a positive and rational attitude. Wanting to jump off a bridge and not knowing exactly why is hell, but in comparison to the problems that most humans have faced throughout history, mine are quite trivial. I tell those irrational feelings to shut up and sit in a corner, and go on with my day. Certainly, this doesn't solve the problem entirely, but it sure as hell makes life more livable than if I to abdicate my problems to some external source.
Sorry for the whining.  |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2002 : 18:21:24 [Permalink]
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I have had some depression, tried Prozac for a while, and then decided depression was a habit that I "fell" into. That does not say that I don't have a chemical imbalance nor does it say that no one does. I wonder that even if there is such a thing, we can add to it or subtract from it by what we tell ourselves about the world and ourselves.
quote:
I am a third-generation victim of depression.
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
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Espritch
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2002 : 20:08:48 [Permalink]
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My only thought about when I die is I want my body cremated and my ashes scattered. I can think of nothing more silly than to take up a plot of ground while you slowly decompose in a big box.
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2002 : 05:28:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
My only thought about when I die is I want my body cremated and my ashes scattered. I can think of nothing more silly than to take up a plot of ground while you slowly decompose in a big box.
I'd want my wife (if she survives me) to plant me under a garden or a tree as fertilizer, but that'll probably still be against the law when the time comes.
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The NASA Vision:
To improve life here,
To extend life to there,
To find life beyond. |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2002 : 10:23:55 [Permalink]
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I've decide not to die at all.
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My business is to teach my aspirations to conform themselves to fact, not to try and make facts harmonize with my aspirations. ---Thomas Henry Huxley, 1860 |
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Cosmic string
New Member
USA
37 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2002 : 14:34:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Some people here have chosen to take offense to some of my observations on this subject. I sort of assume that it's because they think I'm saying that it's wrong to be angry, or they're stupid because they feel "bad." Nothing could be further from the truth. I use the word "irrational" not to mean stupid, but to mean that one's beliefs are not based on reality. Certainly we want our loved ones to be with us. That has nothing to do with feeling "bad" when they're not. Am I not enough, is not reality enough as it is? What god says that it should be different? By what heaven do we judge reality?
By "bad times," I mean times when people are stressed out and aren't enjoying reality. In other words, I think the habitual building up of stress can explain why people behave the way they do when they don't like reality.
quote:
This is not to say that there is no such thing as clinical depression or that "feeling bad" because someone has knife in your back is irrational. I think the problem here is our limited vocabulary. But, my verbosity has far exceeded my vocabulary so I'll quit pomposifying.
I completely understand how clinical depression is different. I have suffered from clinical depression in the past. A little over a year ago I was so depressed I tried to kill myself. I know it was the stupidest thing I've ever done, but I was so depressed at the time I was completely irrational. I sure am glad there are SSRIs.
I also understand how "irrational" is very different from "stupid". Irrationality is part of our nature, for better or worse. Stupid, OTOH, is not part of our nature, only a product of heredity and circumstance. I also distinguish "stupid" from "ignorant". Stupidity is not a choice, it is just the way things are. Ignorance (root word is "ignore") is a choice.
“The truths of religion are never so well understood as by those who have lost the power of reasoning.” --Voltaire |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2002 : 15:11:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
My only thought about when I die is I want my body cremated and my ashes scattered. I can think of nothing more silly than to take up a plot of ground while you slowly decompose in a big box.
I read that Ed Headrick, the man who invented the modern "Frisbee" recently past away and willed that the ashes from his cremated body are to be molded into limited edition Frisbees!
http://europe.cnn.com/2002/US/08/13/life.frisbee.reut/index.html
With that in mind, I'd like my ashes to be made into panty hose. 
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Edited by - chippewa on 08/16/2002 15:17:23 |
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Stargirl
Skeptic Friend
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2002 : 21:25:16 [Permalink]
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Like many people here I plan on being cremated and have the remains scattered.
A burial plot is only temporary anyway. Most cemeteries end up being moved, paved over or simply abandoned and forgotten.
Usually I only lurk here but I had to add a new twist to keeping your loved ones near to you after death.
I saw this on the news last night. I only caught the tail end of the report so I don't have all the details.
For those people who elect to be cremated there is a company in the US that will take a portion of the carbon from the remains and use it to make an artificial diamond. The gem can then be mounted in a piece of jewelry. There are several crematoriums in Chicago that have already signed up for the service.
This isn't something I would ever consider. But for some women it may be the only way they'll ever get a diamond out of their husband.
If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him - Voltaire |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2002 : 00:16:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Like many people here I plan on being cremated and have the remains scattered.
A burial plot is only temporary anyway. Most cemeteries end up being moved, paved over or simply abandoned and forgotten.
Usually I only lurk here but I had to add a new twist to keeping your loved ones near to you after death.
I saw this on the news last night. I only caught the tail end of the report so I don't have all the details.
For those people who elect to be cremated there is a company in the US that will take a portion of the carbon from the remains and use it to make an artificial diamond. The gem can then be mounted in a piece of jewelry. There are several crematoriums in Chicago that have already signed up for the service.
This isn't something I would ever consider. But for some women it may be the only way they'll ever get a diamond out of their husband.
I've never heard of that! What a great idea. It's almost a better way to recycle then Tokyodreamers idea of being fertilizer.
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*Carabao forever
*SAN FERNANDO VALLEY SECESSION - YES
*All lives are movie settings, it's what channel you're on that counts. Zatikia
*Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand.
Homer Jaye S. |
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