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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
 Posted - 08/14/2002 : 08:46:06
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The TV is flooded with Elvis Presley films and news clips. I think it's because he's been dead for 25 years now.
My question is--am I the last person in America who remembers that for the latter part of his life he was an obese has-been and the subject of public ridicule?
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My business is to teach my aspirations to conform themselves to fact, not to try and make facts harmonize with my aspirations. ---Thomas Henry Huxley, 1860
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Wiley
Skeptic Friend
68 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2002 : 10:05:44 [Permalink]
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For Elvis, like with JFK and Abe Lincoln, death was the best thing for his popularity.
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Pat Farrell
New Member
USA
1 Post |
Posted - 08/15/2002 : 08:21:42 [Permalink]
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Well, speaking personally, I didn't care for him when he was alive, and my opinion has not improved since his (puported) death.
Cheers,
Pat
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welshdean
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
172 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2002 : 03:36:22 [Permalink]
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I'll second that Pat,
I know he's not dead, so never mind saying "puported" (sic)
I've seen him jamming with John Lennon, Jimi Hendrix and Kurt Cobain in a working mans club in grimsby!!
I'm sure I read somewheres that he was the one who shot JFK and drives about in a 1950's "flying disc"
I'm sure what i believe. Are you???
I believe in nothing; only my scepticism kept me from being an atheist.
Edited by - welshdean on 08/16/2002 03:38:53 |
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Mr. Spock
Skeptic Friend
USA
99 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2002 : 05:08:59 [Permalink]
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It's a case of a phenomenally large pedestal for a rather small statue, as far as I'm concerned. True, he is credited with bringing rock and roll to white America (largely by performing watered-down versions of tunes by black musicians) but someone else would have done this anyway. His singing was mediocre, his dancing laughable, and his acting deplorable. He more or less admitted, shortly before his death, that he only knew three chords on the guitar. The King? I don't think so. Of course, I might be just as bad; I always observe December 4th, the day of FZ's death. Of course, there was a REAL musician (and vocal freethinker to boot).
"The amount of noise which anyone can bear stands in inverse proportion to his mental capacity." --Schopenhauer |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2002 : 05:48:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
I always observe December 4th, the day of FZ's death. Of course, there was a REAL musician (and vocal freethinker to boot).
Frank Zappa ... Good musician, bad at naming children
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Mr. Spock
Skeptic Friend
USA
99 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2002 : 16:12:38 [Permalink]
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Moakley: Can't help but agree.
"The amount of noise which anyone can bear stands in inverse proportion to his mental capacity." --Schopenhauer |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2002 : 18:31:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
I'll second that Pat
Damn it Dean! I was going to say that.
I do like some of the songs though. And only after his death started thinking he was kind of cute in his early years.
Once a guy I was dating asked me to go to an Elvis concert with him, but I declined. I always wished I had (was probably one of his last concerts too) just so I could say I did see him in person but no biggie.
I did go to a Ray Charles concert with the same guy and that was cool.
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*Carabao forever
*SAN FERNANDO VALLEY SECESSION - YES
*All lives are movie settings, it's what channel you're on that counts. Zatikia
*Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand.
Homer Jaye S. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2002 : 20:22:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
It's a case of a phenomenally large pedestal for a rather small statue, as far as I'm concerned. True, he is credited with bringing rock and roll to white America (largely by performing watered-down versions of tunes by black musicians) but someone else would have done this anyway.
Elvis didn't just bring "watered-down versions of tunes by black musicians." What Elvis managed to do was combine elements of blues, country and pop in a way that was simply not heard at the time. Others might have even done it better but Elvis was there first. His band was amazing. Along with Chuck Berry, Scotty More has to be counted as one of the first great rock guitar players.
Yes, he brought black influences to a white audience. That was no small thing at the time. It was nothing short of a revolution in music. Many radio stations banned his recordings. His records were burned.
Elvis opened the door for people like Little Richard, Chuck Berry and Fats Domino to cross over from race records to the mainstream.
Jerry Lee couldn't have gone before Elvis because they would have crucified him. They did anyway.
quote:
His singing was mediocre, his dancing laughable, and his acting deplorable. He more or less admitted, shortly before his death, that he only knew three chords on the guitar. The King? I don't think so.
Have you ever listened to the "Sun Session's"? You think his vocal on "Heartbreak Hotel" was mediocre singing? Most Rock and Blues musicians make fun of the three chord twelve bar progression even though it's the cornerstone of Rock, Blues and Country music. The joke is you really don't have to know more than three chords. Elvis was being self deprecating. Anyway, he was a singer.
In the early years, he moved in a way that, again, had not been seen before. He brought sexuality to the step. So much so that on at least one TV show he was only pictured from the waist up. I realize that compared to what goes today Elvis seems very tame. But again, in the context of fifties culture, he was a revolution. As for his acting, big deal. Actually I like "Jail House Rock" and "King Creole." All the other films were just fluff. But hey, he was a singer.
quote:
I always observe December 4th, the day of FZ's death. Of course, there was a REAL musician (and vocal freethinker to boot).
I love Zappa too. Zappa was also a musicologist. Do you really think he didn't recognize Elvis's contributions?
You know, Elvis went out badly. He became a parody of himself. But all of the later stuff cannot erase the cultural and artistic contributions of his early years. Along with some great records, you have to understand the culture that Elvis came from and helped to change to understand his importance. Elvis was a giant link in the chain...
The Evil Skeptic
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2002 : 01:56:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
It's a case of a phenomenally large pedestal for a rather small statue, as far as I'm concerned. True, he is credited with bringing rock and roll to white America (largely by performing watered-down versions of tunes by black musicians) but someone else would have done this anyway.
I don't think he was the 1st, just got the recognition 1st.
quote:
His singing was mediocre, his dancing laughable, and his acting deplorable.
He more or less admitted, shortly before his death, that he only knew three chords on the guitar. The King? I don't think so.
There are many in show bussines and elsewhere who are not as good as others who never make it to the top.
Right place, right time! Who you know, who likes you! It's all hype, IMO.
I can name many now who have little or NO talent but yet they are admired and paid richly for what(ever it is) they do. (Julis Roberts is damn ulgy, there I said it, why she is in every other movie I haven't a clue). And Bob Dylan is a phony but I'm not going to say anything because Kil will yell at me.
But how do you think these people get to where they are?
As for the dancing being laughable, I think what I see now days is even more humorous. Don't get me started on how disgusting rap crap is.
You have to remember that EP was exciting to the kids of that time, there was nothing like it before. They didn't see it as funny. You are seeing it from a historical view. Like watching 1950s Sci-fi special effects compared to those of today.
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*Carabao forever
*SAN FERNANDO VALLEY SECESSION - YES
*All lives are movie settings, it's what channel you're on that counts. Zatikia
*Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand.
Homer Jaye S.
Edited by - snake on 08/17/2002 02:18:59 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2002 : 10:02:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
I don't think he was the 1st, just got the recognition 1st.
Actually, he was the first. Sam Phillips was searching for someone who could combine blues, country and pop in a way that might bring a more black sensibility cross over to a white audience. He found him in Elvis. Elvis happened to be listening to blues and gospel records and visiting black clubs before he ever met Sam Phillips. He was a natural. The "sound" was created at Sun Records when Elvis and the band were goofing off during a recording session. Elvis did a blues thing and the band followed. What they played blew Phillips mind. It was exactly what he wanted.
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Bob Dylan is a phony but I'm not going to say anything because Kil will yell at me.
Oh, christ on a bike. I am done trying to explain how traditional music works to you. Dylan has a body of work that is unparalleled. And, after all these years he is still making great records. He remains the most influential lyricist of the last 30 years.
The Evil Skeptic
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous. |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2002 : 12:12:34 [Permalink]
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Kil is absolutely right on target, and knows the subtleties of this music history as well as the music itself. Some of the other folks so far in this thread should lighten up. I've been in the music business for years and recognize Kil's facts and insights. In their stuffiness, some people are missing out on some great sounds!
"Speaking without thinking like shooting without aiming." - Charlie Chan |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2002 : 12:26:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Kil is absolutely right on target, and knows the subtleties of this music history as well as the music itself. Some of the other folks so far in this thread should lighten up. I've been in the music business for years and recognize Kil's facts and insights. In their stuffiness, some people are missing out on some great sounds!
Exactly....peoples minds are often closed to some forms of music. I admit I feel that way about techno. I have spent 20 years learning to play the guitar and have been writing music since I was in my first band when I was 16. If I had the stage presence of Elvis I might have bought my mum the Porsche I've been promising her for 10 years.
I would rather be the offspring of two apes than be a man and afraid to face the truth.
-- Thomas Huxley |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2002 : 14:31:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Oh, christ on a bike. I am done trying to explain how traditional music works to you. Dylan has a body of work that is unparalleled. And, after all these years he is still making great records. He remains the most influential lyricist of the last 30 years.
Ok Kil, as long as Dylan doesn't sing them, We're fine on this one.
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...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2002 : 14:59:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Ok Kil, as long as Dylan doesn't sing them, We're fine on this one.
LOL.
Are some of you missing one of the points here?
And another thing, tell me Bill Haley was after EP?
Chippewa is right on that, ''In their stuffiness, some people are missing out on some great sounds!''
Yes, people I agree, lighten up.
Rap crap, is crap. Dylan can't sing. And EP was only an entertainer. Proviroti(sp.) is a great singer. Deal with it!
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*Carabao forever
*SAN FERNANDO VALLEY SECESSION - YES
*All lives are movie settings, it's what channel you're on that counts. Zatikia
*Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand.
Homer Jaye S. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2002 : 16:15:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
And another thing, tell me Bill Haley was after EP?
"Rock Around the Clock" is pretty much considered to be the first rock and roll record. That's true. I love the record, but it is mainly a "Rockabelly" tune. I love rockabelly, but generally speaking, it lacked the infusion of sexuality that Elvis brought to the music by incorporating a more soulful, blues influence. Rockabelly is more of a hyped up country style. Elvis did some rockabelly too. "Blue Sued Shoes" by Carl Perkins was a song he covered. But Elvis's version, again, was more bluesy. That made Elvis much more dangerous than the rockabelly singers were to white parents. It could be that "Rock Around the Clock" and it's attachment to the movie "Blackboard Jungle" sort of unlocked the door. Elvis kicked the door open.
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And EP was only an entertainer.
Not all entertainers are revolutionary. Elvis was. Would you say that the Beatles were only entertainers? Why not say that all musicians are just entertainers? I suppose you could make a case for that. But some do loom larger than others when you consider the kind of impact they had on the culture or how they influenced other musicians. Try thinking of music as art and you might get the point...
The Evil Skeptic
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous. |
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