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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
 Posted - 08/17/2002 : 16:34:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
Try thinking of music as art and you might get the point...
First, consider the above quote, then go put on some music you like, forget the above quote and enjoy the music...
The Evil Skeptic
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous. |
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Mr. Spock
Skeptic Friend
USA
99 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2002 : 04:38:53 [Permalink]
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I guess that my post was badly stated, partly because it was the first thing in the morning, partly because I let my natural iconoclasm get the best of me. 
I don't think that Elvis didn't have some modicum of talent or that he wasn't influential (which doesn't necessarily have anything to do with talent; it's just a matter of who happens to grab the spotlight). I'm just saying that the hype doesn't match the ability. Perhaps that's how pop sensations work; I just say so much the worse for pop. (although I do acknowledge that the whole "style over substance" thing extends to all kinds of entertainment, even more the so-called fine arts, of which I am equally critical).
Yes, perhaps I'm a purist and need to lighten up. Call me a musical snob, too, if you like (although I like bands like AC/DC and the Sex Pistols, I do realize that musically, they are pretty much crap). 
Perhaps I'm stretching an analogy, but I find myself no more a musical snob for being somewhat discriminating (I way somewhat, remember that I'm one of the few people on the planet who can still stomach FZ  )
in my musical tastes and critical of most mainstream music than most of us are intellectual snobs for being discriminating in what they count as knowledge or evidence
and being critical of popular ideas regarding what counts as "truth."
I don't want to turn this into a war here; I think that it's silly to argue about entertainment (even though I just did). Can we agree to disagree? I just got my new copy of Skeptic, and need to take a vacation from the net for a while to soak it all in.
"The amount of noise which anyone can bear stands in inverse proportion to his mental capacity." --Schopenhauer |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2002 : 00:03:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
I don't think that Elvis didn't have some modicum of talent or that he wasn't influential (which doesn't necessarily have anything to do with talent; it's just a matter of who happens to grab the spotlight). I'm just saying that the hype doesn't match the ability
I don't want to turn this into a war here; I think that it's silly to argue about entertainment (even though I just did). Can we agree to disagree?
I understood perfectly well what you meant. AND I agree. I think it's some others who are getting off track and a bit defensive.
No, I won't agree to disagree, they are wrong and I won't back down.
Have fun with the Skeptic, see ya when you get back.
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*Carabao forever
*SAN FERNANDO VALLEY SECESSION - YES
*All lives are movie settings, it's what channel you're on that counts. Zatikia
*Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand.
Homer Jaye S. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2002 : 19:56:16 [Permalink]
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I was a teenager when Elvis first hit the scene. At that time, 'white' popular music was crap (with the exception of some big bands like Les Brown and Glen Miller). There was a black station in Atlanta, and that was the one we kids listened to. The music was earthy and vibrant, not sugar-coated garbage.
When we dropped a nickle in the juke, we'd punch in something like Chuck Berry's, "Maybelene," or something by Bo-diddly or Fats (I'm Walkin'...). And we'd listen to commercials for: "Royal Jelly Stick Pomade."
Prestly hit us at just the right time. He filled a huge gap, and gave us some music with a beat and, once in a while, even a message. We guys hated him 'cause our girlfriends all got sweaty thighs at the mention of his name. But, the music was something that you could DANCE to. However, I and my girlfriend of the time agreed that the movie, "Love Me Tender" was less than an epic.
Agreed, Bill Haley had the first R&R record (I still have a 45 of "Rock Around the Clock", but nothing to play it on). But, it was Elvis that kicked it all off. Alas, after having evolved into some truly excellent music and lyrics in the late '60s and '70s, pop music has again become......
Crap.
The King is long dead. And so he shall remain.
RIP, Elvis. Ya gave us a good ride, bro.
f
Religion, oh, just another of those numerous failures resulting from an attempt to popularize art.
-- Ezra Pound |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2002 : 22:48:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Crap.
The King is long dead. And so he shall remain.
Crap is right.
Whoa aho, OOOOhh, ooohh I'm all backed up!
According to the NY Times (1st edition, they took it out of the second) the "king" died while "straining at stool."
thankyouverymuch |
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Rick1
Skeptic Friend
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2002 : 18:57:27 [Permalink]
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| If anyone listens to Elvis in the early years they will see his talent and originality. To bad he sold out so completely. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2002 : 23:24:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
"Rock Around the Clock" is pretty much considered to be the first rock and roll record. That's true. I love the record, but it is mainly a "Rockabelly" tune. I love rockabelly, but generally speaking, it lacked the infusion of sexuality that Elvis brought to the music by incorporating a more soulful, blues influence.
Or could it be that Elvis had the 'look'? Bill Haley wasn't as young and handsom, Elvis was new and fresh, easier to hype.
quote:
Elvis did some rockabelly too. "Blue Sued Shoes" by Carl Perkins was a song he covered. But Elvis's version, again, was more bluesy.
They sound very similar. I will say it's been a long while since I've heard either so I probably shouldn't say too much but I remember liking the Perkins version better. If by 'more bluesy' you mean polished, then ok, it was more something but Perkins IMO, had more style, earthy, more real, if you know what I mean.
quote:
Try thinking of music as art and you might get the point...
I'm willing to bet that more people have assembly line paintings of sunsets over the ocean than anything by Jackson Pollack. To be a commercial success you have to appeal to the masses.
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*Carabao forever
*SAN FERNANDO VALLEY SECESSION - YES
*All lives are movie settings, it's what channel you're on that counts. Zatikia
*Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand.
Homer Jaye S. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2002 : 23:32:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
If anyone listens to Elvis in the early years they will see his talent and originality. To bad he sold out so completely.
Rick, old buddy, is that you?! Hi. It's me SnkEys
About time you started posting.
It's too bad a lot of cool people sold out. The power of money and/or fame!!!
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*Carabao forever
*SAN FERNANDO VALLEY SECESSION - YES
*All lives are movie settings, it's what channel you're on that counts. Zatikia
*Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand.
Homer Jaye S. |
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The SollyLama
Skeptic Friend
USA
234 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2002 : 13:55:46 [Permalink]
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Utterly off this topic, but has anyone else had about enough of side projects ruining perfectly good bands?
Pantera- dead while Phil works on about a dozen other bands
Slipknot- No tour while side projects get studio time
Tool, only now on tour after way too much effort on A Perfect Circle
Yeah, I'm a little biased towards agressive music.
But the musical trend is to put out essentially the same album with several different bands instead of staying in one band. Is this just a problem in metal and punk music?
Smell the glove!!!!
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2002 : 18:17:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
Utterly off this topic, but has anyone else had about enough of side projects ruining perfectly good bands?
Pantera- dead while Phil works on about a dozen other bands
Slipknot- No tour while side projects get studio time
Tool, only now on tour after way too much effort on A Perfect Circle
Yeah, I'm a little biased towards agressive music.
But the musical trend is to put out essentially the same album with several different bands instead of staying in one band. Is this just a problem in metal and punk music?
Smell the glove!!!!
What the HELL are you talking about?
I know those are all English words but they are not making understandable sentences as you have put them together.
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*Carabao forever
*SAN FERNANDO VALLEY SECESSION - YES
*All lives are movie settings, it's what channel you're on that counts. Zatikia
*Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand.
Homer Jaye S. |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2002 : 19:16:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Is this just a problem in metal and punk music?
Um, neo-punk? Punk is dead.
Snake,
have you ever listened to Metal or Punk? From stuff like Motley Crue to Poison to Pantera? Or real punk like Crass?
Sorry Solly, the others don't cut it as Punk.
---
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young |
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Badger
Skeptic Friend
Canada
257 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2002 : 20:01:48 [Permalink]
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Best I can do with regards to punk is The Cure, and The monks.
Otherwise, it's three chord AC/DC, and 3 drunk texan chord ZZ Top.
Oh and George Torogood, but I think he only plays 2 chords per song.
If you think it's work, you're doing it wrong. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2002 : 23:33:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Snake,
have you ever listened to Metal or Punk? From stuff like Motley Crue to Poison to Pantera? Or real punk like Crass?
I've only heard of Motley Crue, never the others. I don't know what Punk is but I like Heavy Metal, if that's what you mean.
As Badger mentioned, ZZ Top, I like them, have heard of AC/DC but don't recall any of their songs. I like KISS, The Scorpions, Twisted Sister, etc., etc. But mostly all I've listen to is Carabao for the last 20 years.
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*Carabao forever
*SAN FERNANDO VALLEY SECESSION - YES
*All lives are movie settings, it's what channel you're on that counts. Zatikia
*Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand.
Homer Jaye S. |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2002 : 14:14:04 [Permalink]
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Yeah, I guess we can call those metal bands. Punk was a political social type of music in it's heyday. Then punk with the social cause died and you got neo-punk, which is what Solly is talking about, and I'd have to go back and look about The Cure and others, but I think they are kinda classified as neo-punk. I haven't listened to the stuff in a while.
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...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2002 : 20:51:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Yeah, I guess we can call those metal bands. Punk was a political social type of music in it's heyday. Then punk with the social cause died and you got neo-punk, which is what Solly is talking about, and I'd have to go back and look about The Cure and others, but I think they are kinda classified as neo-punk. I haven't listened to the stuff in a while.
Music has always been used as social and political statements from way back in history. That still doesn't tell me what the sound is. I hope it's not like that crap we hear today. And I don't know all of todays music, I only hear it on occasion if I can't turn a TV station fast enough or some ass has his car radio blasting. What ever all that is, it's lousey.
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*Carabao forever
*SAN FERNANDO VALLEY SECESSION - YES
*All lives are movie settings, it's what channel you're on that counts. Zatikia
*Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand.
Homer Jaye S. |
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