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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
 Posted - 07/20/2003 : 02:43:30 [Permalink]
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Doomar: My dictionary says, "one who denies the existance of God" It's hard to deny what you haven't studied and most atheists I meet have studied the Bible quite a bit.
Trish: Which dictionary are you using? If I had to guess, I would say Webster. Noah Webster was a christian apologeticist.
The Concise Oxford Dictionary 8th edition says "the theory or belief that God does not exist."
Doomar: Most of them believe in evolution which reduces their arguments to those of simply another mammal, yet many of them lord it over other life forms and even eat them.
You have a pretty screwed up view of your fellow man who does not believe in Your God. Man is a mammal by all biological definitions I've seen. The fact that you believe in a god does not change that fact.
An atheists assumption that there is no god does not reduce him to "simply another mammal" but raises him to the "master of the planet".
Doomar, you have been quick to generalize, so let me give it back to you: Theists, like christians, are just puppets of their gods, who are damned to eternal darkness if they do not obey.
I'm not as narrow minded as to actually believe what I just said, but you really need to work on your people-skill. If you're here to save our souls you really need to stop antagonizing the rest of us by making generalizations that are beneath your station.
Doomar:Some have compassion on animals and fish, while hating other human beings. An atheist is a walking contradiction.
When naturalism got a foothold in european society a couple of hundred years ago, christianity thought it an abomination. The idea that man was not of divine origin scared the shit out of christians. They were afraid that the value of human beings would be lowered from invaluable to the level of "simple mammals" (just as you have shown). Contrary to those christians fears, the value of human life has remained, but instead, the value of animal's lives have increased.
Before, christians had (biblical) rights to torture animals at their pleasure with the argument that "God put man to rule the animals". I know this is a generalization, so I expect you to provide a biblical quote if you do not agree with it.
Naturalism brought us some sensibility by agruing for "rights" for animals, and eventually it became generally accepted that animals had the right to be treated with respect.
They can believe they are the lowly decendants of bacterium and at the same time, kill, rape, deceive, and bully the rest of the human race (U.S.S.R) into buying their beliefs.
While I do believe that we are all decendants of bacteria (3 billion years removed) I would hardly call us lowly. The human brain is the most complex structure in the universe known to man. That elevates us above everything else. In fact, since we learned how to manipulate genes, we have now aquired the ability to direct "evolution" towards any goal we desire. We need only learn how master this ability. By the power of being able to change life, we have ascended to semi-godhood. No thanks to any theism, christianity or otherwise.
They talk acceptance and tolerance of others, yet try to eliminate other forms of religion that denounce them in a heart beat. Pig headed, egotistical, morons might be an apt description for some of them. Others have a soft approach and espouse intellectualism and science. Just as their are many "theistic" religions, so are their many atheistic religions, it seems, some militant, some pacifist, some learned, some ignorant, some rich, some poor, some full of hate, others full of baloney, some just full of themselves, some seeming "saints", and all, anti-god.
In your defence I see you admit that christians are some militant, some pacifist, some learned, some ignorant, some rich, some poor, some full of hate, others full of baloney, some just full of themselves. In what category do you think yourself to be?
In what category do you think we would place you?
If these categories differ, whould you care to hypothesize as to why they differ?
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
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Sanity
New Member
19 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2003 : 10:14:52 [Permalink]
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Asking what atheists believe in is as meaningless as asking what Christians believe in. Do Christians believe in the Trinity? Some do. Some don't. There are Christians who believe Jesus was an Alien.
Christianity is, however, an ideology. The details of this ideology vary from sect to sect, but they all share a basic core. Atheism, on the other hand, isn't an ideology. Since some who claim to be atheists do believe in such things as some sort of super being to which we will all rejoin at our deaths (sort of a New Age pseudo-Buddhism), it can't even be said that atheists are those with no religious theology.
Originally the term was used to describe those who didn't accept "our" deity or deities. The Romans called the Christians atheists - despite the Christians's known belief in a deity. Later the term was applied to those who didn't believe in the Christian deity, whether or not the people had deities of their own.
The dictionary definitions mentioned say that atheism is the belief that God doesn't exist. It isn't defined as a belief that deities don't exist - it says "God." "God," singular. Not gods, not deities, but "God." This is a specific single deity - the deity of the Bible. By this definition, people who believe in a goddess are atheists; people who believe in various native deities are atheists; people who worship ancestors are atheists; Hindus are atheists, etc. By this definition the only people who aren't atheists are Christians and Jews, and perhaps Muslims.
To the people who wrote these definitions, what makes unbelievers atheists isn't their lack of belief in goddesses or ancestors spirits or native gods, it is their lack of belief in the Christian God. This is an externally applied definition.
A theology, or an ideology, is a system of beliefs. The statement that someone doesn't believe in something tells you nothing about that person's ideology or personal system of beliefs. If I tell you my neighbor doesn't believe in Ra or the earth goddess, you know nothing about what my neighbor does believe in. They might be Christian. They might be Jewish. They might be Buddhist. They might be Muslim. They might be atheist.
If I tell you my neighbor is Christian, you still don't know if my neighbor believes in the Trinity or whether they believe in evolution.
It is common to presume that everyone who shares the same label as you do, believes as you do. It is common to presume that all who share a particular label share common beliefs. For a long time, I assumed all other atheists were liberals. I was surprised to find that more that half those I talked with regularly were conservative or libertarian.
Trying to come up with an atheistic theology or ideology is as senseless as trying to come up with a blond theology or ideology. Like blondes or brunettes, atheists share one thing only. It is just as silly to talk about atheist religion as to talk about brunette religion.
Religion is defined as "a belief in God or a group of gods to be worshiped; or, a particular system of such belief and worship." (Websters) Religion is a system of worship of deity. Those who don't worship any deity don't have a religion. Those who believe in deity, but who don't worship this deity or deities, don't have a religion. Obviously, it can't be said that anyone who doesn't believe in a deity worships a deity. Thus it can't be said they have a religion.
I am tempted to say that the only thing that can be said of atheists with assuredness is that atheists are homo sapiens, but that isn't true. I doubt that any member of any species other than homo sapiens has a belief in God, or any other deity. There are, by the way, atheists who don't believe in evolution - so I can't even say that atheists believe in science. |
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