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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
 Posted - 02/16/2003 : 01:33:21 [Permalink]
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| Walt, the list of parallels is pretty off. That Sun/mushroom nonsense should ring some bells. And his catagories are a bit vague. And so are just plain off. For instance the Christian Trinity is taken straight from the religion of Dionysus and he leaves this out. Demigods and Saviors were a dime a dozen, they were all interrelated |
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walt fristoe
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2003 : 16:57:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Slater
That Sun/mushroom nonsense should ring some bells.
Yeah, I've been trying to figure out what that was all about. I know that many of the ancient religions were built around the idea of the dying and resurrecting sun, but I don't know where the mushroom stuff comes in. |
"If God chose George Bus of all the people in the world, how good could God be?"
Bill Maher |
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darwin alogos
SFN Regular
USA
532 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2003 : 23:18:02 [Permalink]
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waltfristoe: quote:
Hey Slater, here's a site that gives a chart showing the many parallels between Jesus and several of those demigods.
Here's another really good website that you might find informative.
quote:
Yeah, I've been trying to figure out what that was all about. I know that many of the ancient religions were built around
the idea of the dying and resurrecting sun, but I don't know where the mushroom stuff comes in.
How about those footnotes walto,what's he trying to hide??? Lack of evidence? |
To deny logic you must use it.To deny Jesus Existed you must throw away all your knowledge of the ancient world. To deny ID
you must refute all analogical reasoning. So the question is why deny? |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2003 : 23:27:56 [Permalink]
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What's he trying to hide? 17 demigods who he lied about existing....oh, wait a minute....that's your "expert" lying.
And you ignoring the lie. Anyone want to bet that DA will let this source pass for a while and then quote him again wishing that everyone will forget the LIES for Jesus? |
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darwin alogos
SFN Regular
USA
532 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2003 : 00:25:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Buddha…500 years before Yeshua/Jesus
Although most people think of Buddha as being one person who lived around 500 B.C.E., the character commonly portrayed as Buddha can also be
demonstrated to be a compilation of g-dmen, legends and sayings of various holy men both preceding and succeeding the period attributed to the
Buddha.
The Buddha character has the following in common with the Christ figure:
Buddha was born of the virgin Maya, who was considered the "Queen of Heaven."
He was of royal descent.
He crushed a serpent's head.
He performed miracles and wonders, healed the sick, fed men from a "small basket of cakes," and walked on water.
He abolished idolatry, was a "sower of the word," and preached "the establishment of a kingdom of righteousness."
He taught chastity, temperance, tolerance, compassion, love, and the equality of all.
He was transfigured on a mount.
Sakya Buddha was crucified in a sin-atonement, suffered for three days in hell, and was resurrected.
He ascended to Nirvana or "heaven."
Buddha was considered the "Good Shepherd", the "Carpenter", the "Infinite and Everlasting."
He was called the "Savior of the World" and the "Light of the World.
No Slater it's you who fail read carefully what my expert said("especially scandalous and impossible about the mythological gods was their pronounced human, yes, excessive human
character....In contrast to this concept of
deity, especially Platonic and Stoic philosophy developed an alternative, anti-mythological theology. God, or rather the divine,
is far removed from human suffering
and passion. God is `beyond suffering'; He cannot suffer. He cannot be subject to another's power. God is pure reason and
absolutely sovereign. He is apathês (not
suffering). Any human curtailment of God was unthinkable").Anyhow this is typical for your socalled copycat experts you read in your above (nonfootnoted)source "Sakya Buddha was crucified in a sin-atonement, suffered for three days in hell, and was resurrected.
He ascended to Nirvana or "heaven." then when you do some research on the subject you find: quote:
The Sakya Tradition
The Sakya tradition is closely bound up with the Khon ancestral
lineage, which derived from celestial beings. The lineage has
descended intact up to the present time from Khon Könchok
Gyelpo(1034-l 102), founder of the Sakya tradition.
From the doctrinal point of view the tradition traces its origins to
the Indian Yogin Virupa through Gayadhara. His disciple Drogmi
Shakya Yeshe (992-1074) travelled to India where he received teachings on
the Kalachakra, the Path and its Fruit and others from many Indian masters
and returned to Tibet. Later, Khon Könchok Gyelpo, one of his main disciples,
built a monastery in the Tsang province of central Tibet and named it Sakya, or
Grey Earth monastery. So the school took its name, Sakya, from the location of
the monastery. Khon Könchok Gyelpo's son Sachen Kunga Nyingpo
(1092-1158) was a person of extraordinary skill and spiritual attainment, who
held all the lineages of tantra and sutra teachings of Arya Nagarjuna and
Virupa. He had four sons - Kungabar, Sonam Tsemo, Jetsun Dakpa Gyeltsen
and Palchen Rinpochey. The second son Sonam Tsemo (1142-82) became a
learned scholar at the early age of sixteen. He had visions of many
meditational deities and also produced many realised disciples. Jetsun Dakpa
Gyeltsen (1147-1216) received lay celibacy vows and showed strong signs of
spiritual maturity in his youth. At the age of eleven he gave his first Hevajra
teaching.(http://www.tibet.com/Buddhism/sakya.html)
Damm man that group didn't even exist untill some 900+ years after Jesus??? Well no doubt there was copying going on but it was the other way around. |
To deny logic you must use it.To deny Jesus Existed you must throw away all your knowledge of the ancient world. To deny ID
you must refute all analogical reasoning. So the question is why deny? |
| Edited by - darwin alogos on 02/18/2003 00:30:32 |
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darwin alogos
SFN Regular
USA
532 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2003 : 11:27:56 [Permalink]
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Here's what a scholarly examination should look like walto quote:
The Death of the Mystery Gods and the Death of Jesus
The best way to evaluate the alleged dependence of early Christian beliefs about Christ's death and resurrection on the pagan myths of a dying and rising savior-god is to examine carefully the supposed parallels. The death of Jesus differs from the deaths of the pagan gods in at least six ways:
(1) None of the so-called savior-gods died for someone else. The notion of the Son of God dying in place of His creatures is unique to Christianity.13
(2) Only Jesus died for sin. As Günter Wagner observes, to none of the pagan gods “has the intention of helping men been attributed. The sort of death that they died is quite different (hunting accident, self-emasculation, etc.).”14
(3) Jesus died once and for all (Heb. 7:27; 9:25-28; 10:10-14). In contrast, the mystery gods were vegetation deities whose repeated deaths and resuscitations depict the annual cycle of nature.
(4) Jesus' death was an actual event in history. The death of the mystery god appears in a mythical drama with no historical ties; its continued rehearsal celebrates the recurring death and rebirth of nature. The incontestable fact that the early church believed that its proclamation of Jesus' death and resurrection was grounded in an actual historical event makes absurd any attempt to derive this belief from the mythical, nonhistorical stories of the pagan cults.15
(5) Unlike the mystery gods, Jesus died voluntarily. Nothing like this appears even implicitly in the mysteries.
(6) And finally, Jesus' death was not a defeat but a triumph. Christianity stands entirely apart from the pagan mysteries in that its report of Jesus' death is a message of triumph. Even as Jesus was experiencing the pain and humiliation of the cross, He was the victor. The New Testament's mood of exultation contrasts sharply with that of the mystery religions, whose followers wept and mourned for the terrible fate that overtook their gods.16
The Risen Christ and the “Rising Savior-Gods”
Which mystery gods actually experienced a resurrection from the dead? Certainly no early texts refer to any resurrection of Attis. Nor is the case for a resurrection of Osiris any stronger. One can speak of a “resurrection” in the stories of Osiris, Attis, and Adonis only in the most extended of senses.17 For example, after Isis gathered together the pieces of Osiris's dismembered body, Osiris became “Lord of the Underworld.” This is a poor substitute for a resurrection like that of Jesus Christ. And, no claim can be made that Mithras was a dying and rising god. The tide of scholarly opinion has turned dramatically against attempts to make early Christianity dependent on the so-called dying and rising gods of Hellenistic paganism.18 Any unbiased examination of the evidence shows that such claims must be rejected.
Christian Rebirth and Cultic Initiation Rites
Liberal writings on the subject are full of sweeping generalizations to the effect that early Christianity borrowed its notion of rebirth from the pagan mysteries.19 But the evidence makes it clear that there was no pre-Christian doctrine of rebirth for the Christians to borrow. There are actually very few references to the notion of rebirth in the evidence that has survived, and even these are either very late or very ambiguous. They provide no help in settling the question of the source of the New Testament use of the concept. The claim that pre-Christian mysteries regarded their initiation rites as a kind of rebirth is unsupported by any evidence contemporary with such alleged practices. Instead, a view found in much later texts is read back into earlier rites, which are then interpreted quite speculatively as dramatic portrayals of the initiate's “new birth.” The belief that pre-Chr |
To deny logic you must use it.To deny Jesus Existed you must throw away all your knowledge of the ancient world. To deny ID
you must refute all analogical reasoning. So the question is why deny? |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2003 : 17:38:05 [Permalink]
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But this isn't a scholarly examination, it's a religious tract from that radio huckster, "The Bible Answer Man." And you have already posted it, AND we have already gone through it, point by point. It is nothing but lies and half truths.
But then you already know that. One can only assume that you are using this already refuted piece of trash to try to fool Walt. You should be ashamed of yourself. |
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darwin alogos
SFN Regular
USA
532 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2003 : 18:57:28 [Permalink]
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Slater: quote:
AND we have already gone through it, point by point. It is nothing but lies and half truths.
But then you already know that. One can only assume that you are using this already refuted piece of trash to try to
fool Walt. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Yeah right. Slater your the only one fooled by that copycat dribble you've quoted a hundred times before and you still haven't refuted one point of my sources.But keep the faith baby. |
To deny logic you must use it.To deny Jesus Existed you must throw away all your knowledge of the ancient world. To deny ID
you must refute all analogical reasoning. So the question is why deny? |
| Edited by - darwin alogos on 02/18/2003 18:58:25 |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2003 : 19:41:45 [Permalink]
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| Has anyone else noticed that ALL of DA's points have remained unrefuted? |
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darwin alogos
SFN Regular
USA
532 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2003 : 15:55:50 [Permalink]
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Slater: quote:
Has anyone else noticed that ALL of DA's points have remained unrefuted?
I guess your only a legend in your own mind Slater. |
To deny logic you must use it.To deny Jesus Existed you must throw away all your knowledge of the ancient world. To deny ID
you must refute all analogical reasoning. So the question is why deny? |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2003 : 16:19:42 [Permalink]
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| No, it means that no one has noticed that your points have remained unrefuted. You are the site joke. |
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darwin alogos
SFN Regular
USA
532 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2003 : 20:44:14 [Permalink]
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Slater: quote:
No, it means that no one has noticed that your points have remained unrefuted. You are the site joke.
I'll make easy for you Slater,canyou name one point I've made that you have refuted? and I don't mean that tierd old crap you pull of just ranting and raving "That DA is lying ect..." |
To deny logic you must use it.To deny Jesus Existed you must throw away all your knowledge of the ancient world. To deny ID
you must refute all analogical reasoning. So the question is why deny? |
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welshdean
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
172 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2003 : 01:29:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by darwin alogos
Slater: quote:
I guess your only a legend in your own mind Slater.
And in my my mind!! Slater for President yeah, yeah, yeah. |
"Frazier is so ugly he should donate his face to the US Bureau of Wild Life."
"I am America. I am the part you won't recognize, but get used to me. Black, confident, cocky. My name, not yours. My religion, not yours. My goals, my own. Get used to me."
"Service to others is the rent you pay for your room here on earth."
---- Muhammad Ali
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2003 : 08:55:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Slater
You are the site joke.
Or, perhaps, a sick joke better ignored. |
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2003 : 09:44:21 [Permalink]
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| It would seem that DA's infantile ploy of "Be nice the Jesus 'cause I wove him just like I wove my Mommy" fell flat. Now he's feigning amnesia. |
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