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Piltdown
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
 Posted - 06/27/2001 : 00:27:47
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Rage Against the Machines
quote:
The global, organized neo-Luddite movement was born this February 24th, on New York City's tony upper East Side, of all places. That's when a group called the International Forum on Globalization held a "Teach-In on Technology and Globalization" at Hunter College. The goal of the event, announced IFG head Jerry Mander, was to "bring together the protest movement born in Seattle with the leading critics of technologies -- Luddites, if you will." If the reported attendance by 1,400 people is any indication, then the IFG succeeded in its goal -- a fact the world may some day come to rue.
Jerry Mander? "Holy Woodstock, Batman, how obvious can a throwback be?"
I am not just skeptical but actually cynical
about this whole movement. To me, it seems like little more than an opportunity for bored middle-class college students to act out their commercially implanted 60s radical fantasies.
There is a pattern here: the commercial media and their Madison Avenue pimps profit from the widespread absence of critical thinking, as typified by lucrative presentations like the Fox moon hoax and Crossing Over with John Edward .
Science is based on logic and critical thinking. Commercial pop-culture is hostile to logic and critical thinking, and therefore to real science, quite possibly because these things would render the most profitable advertising appeals and marketing methods completely ineffective. Commercial pop-culture glamorizes the mindless blackshirt rioters who attack technology and science. Are the neo-Luddites simply the elite commando arm of the Hollywood/Madison Avenue Cultural Axis?
Edited by - piltdown on 06/27/2001 00:29:25
Edited by - piltdown on 06/27/2001 00:32:23
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 06/27/2001 : 01:06:09 [Permalink]
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I say cut off their cell phone access as punishment!
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2001 : 01:58:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
I say cut off their cell phone access as punishment!
LOL! I wonder how many of them rode a motor vehicle to get there....
-Timmy! |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2001 : 05:19:32 [Permalink]
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I skimmed the article rather quickly, so I may have this wrong, but the implication is that Neo-Luddites are the majority of those that were protesting the WTO, and that those protesting the WTO were against free trade. These two important points of interest are not substantiated at all.
Most of the people I talk to who were involved see those people as a very small minority, and think the WTO has very little to do with "Free Trade" if such a thing could exist.
see:
http://www.fair.org/extra/0001/wto-prattle.html
quote:
quote:
I say cut off their cell phone access as punishment!
LOL! I wonder how many of them rode a motor vehicle to get there....
-Timmy!
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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JRB
New Member
USA
37 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2001 : 12:30:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
I say cut off their cell phone access as punishment!
Yes - and take away their Lexus SUV's! 
"Dear God. We paid for all this stuff ourselves, so thanks for nothing."
~Bart Simpson saying grace |
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bestonnet_00
Skeptic Friend
Australia
358 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2001 : 02:38:16 [Permalink]
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Could it be that mobile phones are used by them to organise, using the american imperialist's technology against them?
The globalisation that was being protested was not globalisation, but instead american imperialism.
If the WTO were truly committed to getting nations into the developed world they wouldn't be holding Chile up as a model of what can be done.
Or is it that they just want to allow US and their buddies companies to make more money?
Abondon Drugs, say no to Religion |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2001 : 13:23:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Could it be that mobile phones are used by them to organise, using the american imperialist's technology against them?
Abondon Drugs, say no to Religion
Two things:
1) Define "American Imperialism"
2) Is misspelling "abandon" a joke that I'm missing?
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Gambatte kudasai! |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2001 : 13:33:34 [Permalink]
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I had not heard that the US controlled the WTO. Where is this bit of information coming from?
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
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Piltdown
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2001 : 18:03:32 [Permalink]
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[quote]
I skimmed the article rather quickly, so I may have this wrong, but the implication is that Neo-Luddites are the majority of those that were protesting the WTO, and that those protesting the WTO were against free trade. These two important points of interest are not substantiated at all.
Most of the people I talk to who were involved see those people as a very small minority, and think the WTO has very little to do with "Free Trade" if such a thing could exist.
[quote]
I'm not sure if the article gave that impression, but you are quite right: opposition to the WTO is not synonymous with being a luddite. The neo-luddites are piggy-backing their agenda onto a very widespread and broad-based movement. Commercial pop-culture, whose interests are so well-served by science bashing, is the most pervasively globalized of all corporate industries. You won't find an international bank office in every little village in Africa, but you will find the products of American pop-culture.
The best exposition of this issue
can probably be found in Thomas M. Franks's landmark book The Conquest of Cool. This is really an historical examination of the relationship between the counterculture and the advertising industry from the 1950s to the present day. Its conclusions are a damning indictment of the ad industry and of popular culture in general, though not necessarily of the counterculture.
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Greg
Skeptic Friend
USA
281 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2001 : 20:33:42 [Permalink]
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If these extreme anti-technology people are indeed getting disproportionate press coverage, it sounds like someone is setting them up as the 'straw man'.
Most environmentalists that I know (including myself) are only calling for responsible treatment of the environment. Most critics of the WTO and IMF point to problems in 'underdeveloped' countries and suggest new ways of doing business. These are important issues to be discussed in public forum. A bunch of hippy wannabees, without a clear philosophy get publicity. Go figure!
Greg.
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bestonnet_00
Skeptic Friend
Australia
358 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2001 : 03:25:25 [Permalink]
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Normally you don't mention spelling mistakes on the net, particulary when the spell checker is as bad as this one and I couldn't be bothered copying it into word or similiar to check.
As for American Imperialism, US companies are expanding and covering the world to the point at which they can control some countries.
They still have a long way to go, but unless they get stopped something worse then what the British were doing a hundread years ago will happen soon.
Abondon Drugs, say no to Religion |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2001 : 08:26:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Normally you don't mention spelling mistakes on the net, particulary when the spell checker is as bad as this one and I couldn't be bothered copying it into word or similiar to check.
Unless it's your signature, but hey, do what you want! 
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Gambatte kudasai! |
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Mespo_man
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2001 : 11:53:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
As for American Imperialism, US companies are expanding and covering the world to the point at which they can control some countries.
And I suppose that companies like Shell Oil, BP/Amoco, Sony, Mitsubishi, Daimler Chrysler, LLoyds, Nestle, and a host of other foreign companies are meek and mild players in the Circus Maximus?
And how about the Airbus consortium? Hello, Boeing. Are you listening?
Americans don't have a monopoly on imperialistic designs.
(:raig
Rape, Pillage, THEN Burn. [Mongolian Hoards Handbook] |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2001 : 12:02:34 [Permalink]
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This is true. It's more of a transnational corporation imperialism. One could call it Western Imperialism. The bulk of the money and the influence will be from the U.S., but it won't necessarily benefit the people in the U.S. very much.
quote:
quote:
As for American Imperialism, US companies are expanding and covering the world to the point at which they can control some countries.
And I suppose that companies like Shell Oil, BP/Amoco, Sony, Mitsubishi, Daimler Chrysler, LLoyds, Nestle, and a host of other foreign companies are meek and mild players in the Circus Maximus?
And how about the Airbus consortium? Hello, Boeing. Are you listening?
Americans don't have a monopoly on imperialistic designs.
(:raig
Rape, Pillage, THEN Burn. [Mongolian Hoards Handbook]
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2001 : 12:43:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
It's more of a transnational corporation imperialism.
I agree! I wish the U.S. wasn't so stereotyped and misunderstood.
Stop the murder of every people.
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Gambatte kudasai! |
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