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Fireballn
Skeptic Friend
Canada
179 Posts |
 Posted - 12/07/2002 : 13:21:41
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People have been banging their heads together for a long time over the evolution vs creation debate. For all this time one thing eludes both sides...proof. God hasn't slammed his fist into the ground and said "look you little freaks I did this." Sorry no proof. On the other hand, science doesn't have the video tape of the big bang giving forth matter, evolution, life, thought, reason, logic...ect. Sorry no proof, still a theory. What people need is a fresh debate and here it is. I did it. I created all of you, just now, as you read this, all you percieve, your whole reality. I gave you a full memory bank of all you remember, your upbringing, and all history. I gave you your future thoughts. From what you're going to do today, to who you think will win the superbowl, to where you will retire. I did this for everybody in the whole world. You really do not exist(corporally) you're just a pawn in my elaborate reality. Since no one can prove that I didn't just create the universe we should change the debate to creation vs evolution vs fireballution. All three can't be proved or disproved.
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If i were the supreme being, I wouldn't have messed around with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers 8 o'clock day one!
-Time Bandits- |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2002 : 14:48:08 [Permalink]
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| Er...umm..Fireballn...evolution is based completely on proof, that is why it is a Theory. It is what the word theory means. |
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I learned something ... I learned that Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate Halloween. I guess they don't like strangers going up to their door and annoying them.
-Bruce Clark
There's No Toilet Paper...on the Road Less Traveled |
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Terryt88
Skeptic Friend
USA
120 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2002 : 15:04:06 [Permalink]
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It's really intereting to note how many people still don't understand that when science calls something a theory, it's because it's been proven to almost no doubt.
Oddly enough the term Law of Gravity is used to explain something we still can't fully describe. |
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Fireballn
Skeptic Friend
Canada
179 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2002 : 16:25:37 [Permalink]
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| Isn't it interesting that when something is proven to almost no doubt there is still some doubt left. Theory doesn't mean absolute, theory means and I quote "a supposition put forward to explain something, speculation." This wasn't my point anyway but since we're here...It isn't the theory of gravity, it is the law of gravity. The word law takes the doubt out of the equation. (By the way i do believe in evolution im not fighting that point). |
If i were the supreme being, I wouldn't have messed around with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers 8 o'clock day one!
-Time Bandits- |
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2002 : 16:33:28 [Permalink]
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Fireballn, you should had added the word "Ignorant" to the beginning of your post.
Take a read with this Q & A link from Astronomy Cafe.....
http://itss.raytheon.com/cafe/qadir/q916.html
....and tell us what you think about it.
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"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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Terryt88
Skeptic Friend
USA
120 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2002 : 16:44:48 [Permalink]
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I really wasn't inferring anything to your knowledge of science Fireball, I was really just pointing out an assumption of mine that most people don't know the difference. Hell, I didn't even really know the difference until later in high school, which I think is relatively late. Mostly me just being a cynic. 
Isn't it interesting that when something is proven to almost no doubt there is still some doubt left.
That's what is great about scientific method.
Theory doesn't mean absolute, theory means and I quote "a supposition put forward to explain something, speculation."
With that said, it must be noted that for any scientist to retain his/her credibility, they would only make such a publicized "speculation" if they were sure their theory was "proven to almost no doubt." (Or at least we would hope so. ) |
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Fireballn
Skeptic Friend
Canada
179 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2002 : 17:09:09 [Permalink]
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Why is everyone getting defensive, you people are starting to act like Christians. I throw out an idea (satirically) and people start defending their belief systems like there going to fall apart. I was only pointing out that at this time there is not a point of view that shows the beginning of everything to 100%. There isn't, that is a fact. If there was, people wouldn't be debating about this for so long.
The post was interesting I have read articles like it though.
Lighten up or I'll give you people a disease... I did create the universe you know. |
If i were the supreme being, I wouldn't have messed around with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers 8 o'clock day one!
-Time Bandits- |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2002 : 17:11:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Fireballn: ...theory means and I quote "a supposition put forward to explain something, speculation."
First, if you are going to quote something, it is standart to cite your source. Second, this is not the scientific definition of "theory." You defined a scientific hypothesis. A theory has already countered all attempts at disproof. quote:
...It isn't the theory of gravity, it is the law of gravity.
In that case, I can call evolution a law as well.
[spelling] |
| Edited by - Boron10 on 12/07/2002 17:12:17 |
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Antie
Skeptic Friend
USA
101 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2002 : 17:43:43 [Permalink]
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> On the other hand, science doesn't have the video tape of the big
> bang giving forth matter, evolution, life, thought, reason,
> logic...ect.
So, anything less "reliable" than a video tape would not be acceptable?
Besides, you're mixing up three different theories here:
1. The Theory of Evolution
2. Abiogenesis
3. The Big Bang Theory
> Sorry no proof, still a theory.
To a scientist, theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. To your average Joe, a theory is just a guess.
> You really do not exist(corporally) you're just a pawn in my
> elaborate reality.
Solipsism. If your elaborate reality is all that exists, then we don't exist. So, stop arguing with us.
> It isn't the theory of gravity, it is the law of gravity.
There are theories of gravity, and there is a law of gravity.
> I was only pointing out that at this time there is not a point of
> view that shows the beginning of everything to 100%.
Well, no kidding. |
Antie. DIES GAUDII.
Facies Fabulosarum Feminarum
If you can name all six of the females in the picture above without looking up their names, and you can read the Latin phrase, pat yourself on the back. You're smart. |
| Edited by - Antie on 12/07/2002 17:45:03 |
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Fireballn
Skeptic Friend
Canada
179 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2002 : 17:48:17 [Permalink]
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Boron are you saying that every theory that man has ever come up with is 100% fact because it has gone through all attempts of disproof? What if the theory is incorrect, but because science doesn't have the technology yet to disprove it, it is deemed correct at the present time. This makes no sense.
I have no problem with science, it can solve so much. But come on, one day it might solve all questions just not yet. |
If i were the supreme being, I wouldn't have messed around with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers 8 o'clock day one!
-Time Bandits- |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2002 : 18:08:19 [Permalink]
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No matter how well a theory is supported, the introduction of new evidence can alter that theory or throw the whole thing into doubt. But a scientific theory is as close to a fact as you are ever going to get. What makes science special is that it can change with the introduction of new evidence, thereby avoiding dogma.
But all in all, you are correct. I consider evolution a fact because the theory is so well supported. That's good enough for me. I don't mind a bit of uncertainty, no matter how minuscule.... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Fireballn
Skeptic Friend
Canada
179 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2002 : 18:10:54 [Permalink]
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Thanks Kil that's all I wanted to hear. |
If i were the supreme being, I wouldn't have messed around with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers 8 o'clock day one!
-Time Bandits- |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2002 : 18:13:22 [Permalink]
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It seems as if you are trying to show that my explanation is false by taking an extreme position and showing how ridiculous it is.
quote:
Fireballn:Boron are you saying that every theory that man has ever come up with is 100% fact because it has gone through all attempts of disproof?
I am saying every scientific theory was as true as the data at the time indicated. And every theory that has gone through all attempts of disproof is as true as anything can be. quote:
What if the theory is incorrect, but because science doesn't have the technology yet to disprove it, it is deemed correct at the present time.
Then, once it has been shown to be false it will no longer be called a theory. quote:
I have no problem with science, it can solve so much. But come on, one day it might solve all questions just not yet.
Are you trying to say that science can answer all questions? I doubt that will ever be true, but I think that's a discussion for a different forum topic. |
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2002 : 19:28:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Fireballn
Isn't it interesting that when something is proven to almost no doubt there is still some doubt left.
Apparently it is interesting to you, but it has nothing to do with evolution.
quote:
Originally posted by Fireballn
Theory doesn't mean absolute, theory means and I quote "a supposition put forward to explain something, speculation."
First of all, to quote without attribution is childish, disingenuous, or both.
Secondly, the term 'theory' has been heavily compromised and adulterated in common speech but, within the context of science and philosophy, a 'theory' is a viable hypothesis and, therefore, both testable and falsifiable. That you should equate theory with speculation says far more about you than about science.
Finally, there is an enormous amount of speculative bullpuckie that "can't be proved or disproved". Yours is distinguished solely by being particularly uninteresting and useless. |
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
| Edited by - ConsequentAtheist on 12/07/2002 19:29:47 |
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Fireballn
Skeptic Friend
Canada
179 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2002 : 20:00:01 [Permalink]
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I couldn't care less if the term theory has been heavily compromised and adulterated in common speech. Science states that a theory is truth until as Boron stated that "once a theory has been shown to be false it will no longer be called a theory." This is far from set in stone wouldn't you think. At this time science will take a mulligan and state that the theory is false and people should not believe in it anymore. So evolution will remain a fact until the theory is proven false. So will fireballution.
Oh about that quote that wasn't accounted for, get ready, it was from a dictionary. |
If i were the supreme being, I wouldn't have messed around with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers 8 o'clock day one!
-Time Bandits- |
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Fireballn
Skeptic Friend
Canada
179 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2002 : 20:03:02 [Permalink]
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| Also where the hell is jesus freak I also said that nobody could prove his theory either... |
If i were the supreme being, I wouldn't have messed around with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers 8 o'clock day one!
-Time Bandits- |
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