|
|
|
PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
 Posted - 12/07/2002 : 20:14:31 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Fireballn
I couldn't care less if the term theory has been heavily compromised and adulterated in common speech. Science states that a theory is truth until as Boron stated that "once a theory has been shown to be false it will no longer be called a theory." This is far from set in stone wouldn't you think.
Absolutely. Why do you think this is a problem? You would rather science be a bit more dogmatic? For any particular theory, the set of all disconfirming evidences is necessarily open-ended. We cannot know a priori all things that will falsify a theory. If we did, our theory would be falsified thusly.
quote:
At this time science will take a mulligan and state that the theory is false and people should not believe in it anymore. So evolution will remain a fact until the theory is proven false. So will fireballution.
Well, here you conflate the fact of evolution, common descent, with the theories of evolution, natural selection, genetic drift, punk eek, etc. Scientists can, and do, make these distinctions routinely. You should consider doing so, as well.
|
I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery.
-Agent Smith |
 |
|
|
Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2002 : 20:37:13 [Permalink]
|
Here's a few examples of creationist cretin's incorrect use of "scientific theory" that just drives me up the wall. A number of ignorant school boards are equally to blame......
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/96687_design22.shtml
In Cobb County, Ga., controversy erupted this spring when school board officials decided to affix "disclaimer stickers" to science textbooks, alerting students that "evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things."
http://www.baxterbulletin.com/news/stories/20021101/localnews/414776.html
Holt's bill prohibited spending state tax money on textbooks or other materials that teach "false evidences." Holt said "false evidences" included teaching evolution as scientific fact, instead of theory.
http://www.westword.com/issues/2002-10-17/feature.html/1/index.html
Last month, the school board in Cobb County, Georgia's second-largest public-school district, voted unanimously to allow middle school and high school science teachers to present creationism as a credible alternative theory on the origins of life.
http://www.thebatt.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2002/10/14/3daa851b7a2f3
Opponents of evolution often attack the theory because it has not been proven.
http://www.wkbn.com/Global/story.asp?S=971661
They say that students should learn evolution but also be exposed to other scientific theories competing with it.
http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/metro/cobb/0902/28teachers.html
Amid urging from parents who believe evolution is an unproven theory, the board unanimously approved a policy Thursday allowing teachers to discuss "disputed views" on the origin of man.
"I'm very disturbed that they want to dilute science education in Cobb County," said Lybrand, adding that the board is suffering from a "misunderstanding of what scientific theory is."
"They made teaching science very, very difficult," he added. "They've made a mockery of science."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/27/national/main523490.shtml
The measure says the district believes "discussion of disputed views of academic subjects is a necessary element of providing a balanced education, including the study of the origin of species."
On and On.
Pathetic! |
"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
|
|
|
Fireballn
Skeptic Friend
Canada
179 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2002 : 22:49:38 [Permalink]
|
As used in science, a theory is an explanation or model based on observation, experimentation, and reasoning, especially one that has been tested and confirmed as a general principle helping to explain and predict natural phenomena.
Any scientific theory must be based on a careful and rational examination of the facts. A clear distinction needs to be made between facts (things which can be observed and/or measured) and theories (explanations which correlate and interpret the facts.
A fact is something that is supported by unmistakeable evidence. For example, the Grand Canyon cuts through layers of different kinds of rock, such as the Coconino sandstone, Hermit shale, and Redwall limestone. These rock layers often contain fossils that are found only in certain layers. Those are the facts.
It is a fact is that fossil skulls have been found that are intermediate in appearance between humans and modern apes. It is a fact that fossils have been found that are clearly intermediate in appearance between dinosaurs and birds.
Facts may be interpreted in different ways by different individuals, but that doesn't change the facts themselves.
Theories may be good, bad, or indifferent. They may be well established by the factual evidence, or they may lack credibility. Before a theory is given any credence in the scientific community, it must be subjected to "peer review." This means that the proposed theory must be published in a legitimate scientific journal in order to provide the opportunity for other scientists to evaluate the relevant factual information and publish their conclusions. There is a clear distintion between fact and theory live with it.
|
If i were the supreme being, I wouldn't have messed around with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers 8 o'clock day one!
-Time Bandits- |
|
|
|
PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2002 : 23:14:31 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Fireballn
As used in science, a theory is an explanation or model based on observation, experimentation, and reasoning, especially one that has been tested and confirmed as a general principle helping to explain and predict natural phenomena.
Okay so far.
quote:
Any scientific theory must be based on a careful and rational examination of the facts. A clear distinction needs to be made between facts (things which can be observed and/or measured) and theories (explanations which correlate and interpret the facts.
Eh, acceptable. But...
How do you reconcile this:
quote:
A fact is something that is supported by unmistakeable evidence.
And this:
quote:
Facts may be interpreted in different ways by different individuals, but that doesn't change the facts themselves.
If facts can be "interpreted in different ways," how do we objectively know what the facts are?
quote:
Theories may be good, bad, or indifferent. They may be well established by the factual evidence, or they may lack credibility. Before a theory is given any credence in the scientific community, it must be subjected to "peer review." This means that the proposed theory must be published in a legitimate scientific journal in order to provide the opportunity for other scientists to evaluate the relevant factual information and publish their conclusions. There is a clear distintion between fact and theory live with it.
Thank you. How does this address the difference between the fact of evolution and the theories of evolution?
|
I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery.
-Agent Smith |
|
|
|
@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
|
|
@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2002 : 00:13:45 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Theories may be good, bad, or indifferent. They may be well established by the factual evidence, or they may lack credibility. Before a theory is given any credence in the scientific community, it must be subjected to "peer review." This means that the proposed theory must be published in a legitimate scientific journal in order to provide the opportunity for other scientists to evaluate the relevant factual information and publish their conclusions. There is a clear distintion between fact and theory live with it.
You mean like the way it's a fact that evolution has been observed as actually having happened and so we must live with it as a fact? I can live with that.
@tomic
|
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
|
|
|
Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2002 : 02:02:13 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Why is everyone getting defensive, you people are starting to act like Christians.
I don't see where anyone is being defensive. I think most are just trying to point out that your ideas concerning scientific method are a bit skewed. Furthermore, your attempt at lumping scientific method in with religion shows that you haven't yet grasped critical thinking, even though you claim a belief in evololution.
quote:
By the way i do believe in evolution
Frankly, I do not 'believe in' evolution. Evolution is not a belief system, like religion. Evolution is a scietific explanation used to explain a particular set of observations. Furthermore, evolution, or science as a whole, does not make claims of infallibility, nor is it interested in 'moral assertions'. That is religion. Science is only one small part of my belief system which is based on understanding the world around me through naturalistic and verifiable explanations.
The theory of evolution is like the theory of gravity. I do noy 'believe in' the theory of gravity, but my experiences tell me that if jump into the air, I will quickly return to the ground. I know that gravity exists, but I do not 'believe in' gravity. I know that evolution happens, but I do not 'believe in' it. Evolution is not my belief system, but an explanation of a natural process that is born out through my personal experiences.
(The last clause of the last sentence of this post was edited so that it would be easier for certain individuals to understand. Originally, the clause read, "but my experiences." I apologize if i caused anyone any confusion.) |
"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
|
| Edited by - Tim on 12/08/2002 04:24:20 |
|
|
|
Fireballn
Skeptic Friend
Canada
179 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2002 : 03:37:19 [Permalink]
|
| How did you experience evolution? Did you morph recently? I guess when you experienced the big bang you had a lot of fun also. |
If i were the supreme being, I wouldn't have messed around with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers 8 o'clock day one!
-Time Bandits- |
|
|
|
Fireballn
Skeptic Friend
Canada
179 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2002 : 03:41:48 [Permalink]
|
| And yeah i do beleive in evolution, I just don't believe it can be proven to 100%. This was my point in the first place. |
If i were the supreme being, I wouldn't have messed around with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers 8 o'clock day one!
-Time Bandits- |
|
|
|
Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2002 : 04:16:37 [Permalink]
|
I was trying to be nice. So, much for that approach.
quote:
How did you experience evolution
In much the same way I experience your trite little attempts at self-apotheosizing.
quote:
Did you morph recently?
Yes, I did...into the realization that you really are quite the little prick.
quote:
I guess when you experienced the big bang you had a lot of fun also.
Are you still having difficulties separating the big bang from evolution, and abiogenesis, or was that a banal attempt to deride myself, and the big bang theory simultaneously?
quote:
I just don't believe it can be proven to 100%. This was my point in the first place.
No, your point in the first place was to insinuate that since nothing can be proven absolutely, then someone ought to stroke your pathetic little ego by giving some credence to the cock and bull fantasy you deemed neccesary to share with the group.
Understand that I do not come here to play your idiotic little games, but to learn from others, and to share whatever meager amount of knowledge that I can. If you want to play these silly little games, then I suggest you surf right on over to AOL or Yahoo chat, and live it up.
In the meantime, If you have something of meaning to share in an adult manner, please, feel free to do so.
|
"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
|
|
|
|
Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
|
|
ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2002 : 07:25:08 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Fireballn
And yeah i do beleive in evolution, I just don't believe it can be proven to 100%. This was my point in the first place.
And what is the point of your point? |
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
|
|
|
riptor
Skeptic Friend
Germany
70 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2002 : 08:56:46 [Permalink]
|
quote:
How did you experience evolution? Did you morph recently? I guess when you experienced the big bang you had a lot of fun also.
Honestly, you don't even know what evolution is, right? |
Hail the Big bearded Jellyfish up in heaven above. |
|
|
|
Fireballn
Skeptic Friend
Canada
179 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2002 : 15:40:06 [Permalink]
|
Tim did you call me a little prick? I thought you wanted to be all adult and serious. Maybe you should spend a little time at Yahoo and calm down.
RD My point was to promote Fireballution. It's a new theory but it's coming along.
Riptor-Evolution? I don't know. Isnt it a kind of energy drink? |
If i were the supreme being, I wouldn't have messed around with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers 8 o'clock day one!
-Time Bandits- |
|
|
|
Kilted_Warrior
Skeptic Friend
Canada
118 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2002 : 17:19:00 [Permalink]
|
The only reason why evolution is still considered a theory because it hasn't been recorded by someone who was there, which is understandable because we only invented writing 5000 years ago, and the scientific method a bit later. Nearly every scientist (and most average people) consider evolution a fact, and only a few loudmouth churchies from the US and a couple others dispute this.
Many people are stil unaware at how well that evolution is documented and how there are no "missing links" like bigfoot is supposed to be.
(I've even heard creationists say that bigfoot can't exist because it wasn't on the ark!) |
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
