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a65phalcon
New Member
USA
44 Posts |
 Posted - 12/09/2002 : 10:50:23
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I am trying to better understand this one. Are we to understand that just because Iraq says in a report, written by Iraq, they don't have weapons of mass destruction or the means to create such arms, that they do not? Seriously how stupid is that? Though I am not a fan of an invasion I find it troubling that all the sudden the U.N. is Iraq's big buddy. I think it is become all to easy for some to forget the past. Forgetting the past only lets us repeat it. Thoughts?
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2002 : 11:30:15 [Permalink]
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How else is Iraq supposed to proof the non-existance of their WMD? Shouldn't the burden of proof be with those who claim that the stuff does exist?
And I would be really supprised if the weapons inspectors will bw able to catch Saddam in a lie in this report. My guess is that it will all come down to a matter of interpretation on some issues.
And what past exactly are we supposed to not forget? Desert Storm? We are indeed about to repeat it. |
To any insufficiently advanced person technolgy becomes indistinguishable from magic. |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2002 : 11:36:40 [Permalink]
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I saw on the news today a few moments of debate about this.
Fact: Iraq submitted it's report as required.
Speculation: Bush says it's a lie. Saddam has always lied and Bush claims he has concrete proof that Sadam is lying. This is speculation until the proof Bush says he has is a)submitted for review and b)confirmed by checking out the physical locations via Hans B and his inspectors.
I will require such proof. I don't take anything the Bush administration says without it because right now if they say the sky is blue I will go outside and look.
No sane person should be ready do see so many people die on the say so of one person unless, as he claims he can, they back it up with facts. This has yet to be done. All we have are unsubstantiated rumors.
@tomic
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Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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a65phalcon
New Member
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2002 : 12:34:11 [Permalink]
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| I am no trying to justify Bush at any level. All I am asking though is are we as a nation, people, administration, or at any level supposed to buy a report written by the country that is in question. That is like asking a neo-nazi to write a report on the Holocaust. Seriously there are several accounts from prior inspectors that state Iraq could possibly be capable of producing such arms. Let me clear this up, I AM NOT IN FAVOR OF A WAR. I am just asking how is it possible to scope the capabilities of a country based on a report from that country? And do try and remember Sadam does have a questionable past, I do not think it is out of his realm of thinking to acquire or even produce such arms, mass destruction or chemical. Again WAR BAD, a better inspection technique GOOD. |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2002 : 13:17:17 [Permalink]
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Who said we are supposed to "buy" their report? We wouldn't have inspectors in there if anyone was just going to take the report at face value. The thing is, a lot of nations think of reports from the USA the same way the USA looks at reports from Iraq. That is to say...with a grain of salt at best and for good reason considering some of the lies administrations past and present have told.
The report was demanded as part of the recent UN resolution. The US agreed to this method by the way. So they turned in their report, as demanded, and now we check it out. They didn't turn a report in for the heck of it. I find it ridiculous that a report that was demanded by the US was deemed to be all lies before it was released. Talk about stupid! LOL Some of us need to actually see something before we judge it. I don't care what Saddam did or is accused of doing in the past. A lot is at stake here. Perhaps tens of thousands of lives stand in the balance and i am not going to let White House spin doctors make my mind up for me.
All we KNOW is that a report has been submitted and inspectors will check it out. These same inspectors found plenty of WMD only a few years ago and had them destroyed or equipment put into mothballs. Why is it that so many people assume that these same experts won't be able to find anything now? History has shown that they can indeed find these weapons. It takes, for instance, a lot of technology to develop nuclear weapons. Technology that is quite hard to find.
George Bush has really put himself in an interesting position. He has insisted he has evidence Iraq has and is developing WMD. If he is telling the truth then he should share this with the weapons inspectors so that we can move forward from there.
So far all we have are the politically motivated ramblngs of a known liar(George W) calling another known liar with his own political motivations a liar. As I said, a lot is at stake here so let's have the inspectors verify all claims and not go to war or even consider war until we actually know something. |
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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a65phalcon
New Member
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2002 : 15:18:35 [Permalink]
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| @tomic.....for once I am in almost full agreement with what you are saying. I think we must have clear and concise proof before any action is taken. I just though it was ridiculous that analysts on CNN and Fox(crap) where acting as of this report cleared the board and Iraq was good to go. |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2002 : 15:29:25 [Permalink]
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I think you may have misinterpreted. I watched the news the last few days and all I saw was them reporting that the report was submitted along with the usual 23 hours of punditizing that goes with it. The pundits are just offering opinions and I know that and seperate that from the news itself.
I just wish some people would stop it with the claim that inspectors can't find anything when the record shows otherwise. Up till '98 they found plenty and destroyed plenty. I'm not saying they got it all but they sure as hell found WMD when they were there and if Bush gives them some of that data he says he has they will be able to go right to it.
@tomic
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Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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Legallee Insane
Skeptic Friend
Canada
126 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 21:55:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
I am trying to better understand this one. Are we to understand that just because Iraq says in a report, written by Iraq, they don't have weapons of mass destruction or the means to create such arms, that they do not?
I don't quite think that this is what the plan ever was. Sure Iraq submitted a report claiming they have no weapons of mass destruction, and you can bet that the U.S. will scrutinize every single sentence. But the way I understand it is that this is the reason for the U.N. weapons inspectors paying a visit to Iraq. If they find that Iraq is harbouring no weapons then they will have substantiated the claim that there aren't any.
What bothers me about the situation is the stance the American Government has taken. They're like the teacher who waits for that one really annoying student to slip up so he can get thrown out of school. Essentially the U.S. is just sitting around with an itchy trigger finger that could potentially go of prematurely. And how much worse would that be if they attacked only to find out later that Iraq was telling the truth this time.
The world is gonna kill itself. |
--"Only the fool says in his heart: There is no god -- The wise says it to the world"
--"I darn you to HECK!" - Catbert
--"Don't worry, we're not laughing at you, we're laughing near you." |
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Kilted_Warrior
Skeptic Friend
Canada
118 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 22:02:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
They're like the teacher who waits for that one really annoying student to slip up so he can get thrown out of school. Essentially the U.S. is just sitting around with an itchy trigger finger that could potentially go of prematurely. And how much worse would that be if they attacked only to find out later that Iraq was telling the truth this time.
good call
My thoughts are if the US never finds any weapons, the hunt will continue until Bush leaves power or someone plants a bomb as an excuse to go to war.
Y'all are probably going to war, and I fear that we may be dragged into it. |
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