|
|
|
a65phalcon
New Member
USA
44 Posts |
 Posted - 12/10/2002 : 20:17:19
|
|
Wow.....how shady is this. Just about an hour ago I was watching Crossfire and wham. Apparently the Navy was following and unmarked ship, from N. Korea to Yemen. So the question is, are we spreading ourselves too thin?
|
|
|
a65phalcon
New Member
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 20:19:20 [Permalink]
|
| What avenues can we follow and what actions are needed to prevent the exportation of armaments from N. Korea to known terrorist countries? |
 |
|
|
Kilted_Warrior
Skeptic Friend
Canada
118 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 21:29:18 [Permalink]
|
you yanks think everything in the world is your responsibility (and partly it is), and think that if you don't do something, the world will end (and maybe it would).
I know you all had bad experiences with isolationism, but terrorists would not target your country if you didn't go blabbing all over the world that you are the free world and the best country. Other countries have pride, and your tourists seem to think that the world exists to please them.
Up here in Canada, we have a pretty small army, but almost all of it is dedicated to peacekeeping, where people see us as helpers, not bombers.
This is how I see it, but maybe I'm wrong |
|
|
|
Legallee Insane
Skeptic Friend
Canada
126 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 21:42:32 [Permalink]
|
quote:
you yanks think everything in the world is your responsibility (and partly it is), and think that if you don't do something, the world will end (and maybe it would).
I agree, I am of the opinion that the great U.S. of A. sticks its' nose in where it just doesn't belong. For some reason there are some Americans who think that it is the job of the United States to correct everyone elses problems. This wouldn't be that bad if it were just helpful input and suggestions but (as was made fun of in one of the fake commercials in "Vice City") the American way to do it is to go into another place and tell everyone exactly how to live. If they don't listen, send in the army, that'll scare everyone into listening.
I'm certainly not trying to offend anyone (I have great respect for any veteran of war who had the courage to fight for their country), but I don't think the U.S. should be involved in the middle east conflict, and certainly not Iraq. The only thing they are going to do is start a war.
quote:
Up here in Canada, we have a pretty small army, but almost all of it is dedicated to peacekeeping, where people see us as helpers, not bombers.
Despite the fact that technically Canada doesn't have anything close to what can be considered an army I have to agree. It's better to be a peace keeperthan to be a peace maker |
--"Only the fool says in his heart: There is no god -- The wise says it to the world"
--"I darn you to HECK!" - Catbert
--"Don't worry, we're not laughing at you, we're laughing near you." |
|
|
|
a65phalcon
New Member
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 22:04:48 [Permalink]
|
Ok... I think you might have not understood. I am not asking to start a war or too take care of this using force. However, if we has a body of humanity are to promote peace, is it not essential to put a strangle hold on such rogue countries as N. Korea? And I don't know that is exactly fair to sit back and cast stones at the USA for its past or present. When you are the strongest country in the world sometimes you have to take an international stance. You cannot stand ideally by and watch the world revolve around you. This does not mean I am in favor of war. I am not in favor of anything that promotes death, but we can no longer become isolationists than Canada can become a world power.
Sorry for the pop shot at Canada, I do love hockey and all but sometimes in world affairs you have to look at the broader scope. |
|
|
|
Legallee Insane
Skeptic Friend
Canada
126 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 22:11:47 [Permalink]
|
quote:
You cannot stand ideally by and watch the world revolve around you.
No, but you can stand idly by and watch the world revolve.
The point that I am attempting to make is that we wouldn't have to worry about what country is shipping weapons to another country if they hadn't been provoked into doing so. The fact that they are now starting to target the U.S. just shows that they are trying to send a message, "STOP INTERFERING IN OUR BUSINESS." |
--"Only the fool says in his heart: There is no god -- The wise says it to the world"
--"I darn you to HECK!" - Catbert
--"Don't worry, we're not laughing at you, we're laughing near you." |
|
|
|
@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 22:12:53 [Permalink]
|
I didn't know that Yemen wasn't allowed to have scud missles. As far as I know it's their right to arm themselves as they see fit. This game of trying to make sure no one ever has weapons that can hit the US is a losing game. It might work for a while but eventually many nations will have the capability of hitting any country they want.
@tomic
|
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
|
|
|
Kilted_Warrior
Skeptic Friend
Canada
118 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 22:17:02 [Permalink]
|
Canada, and power (*snicker)
good point, but I think that, through the '60s,'70s,and '80s US (and Canada) were mostly engaged in the "War on Communism", fighting any Commie country you could find, even though places like Vietnam and China would be much better with Communism than with Capitalism.
Now, in the beginnings of the 21st century, your country is going all out on Terrorism, which has more justification than against communism, but to rid the world of all Terrorism is not going to happen in a million years. You might as well just finish with Afghanistan, then let other countries deal with it. |
|
|
|
NottyImp
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
143 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2002 : 02:41:51 [Permalink]
|
A report here...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2564155.stm
quote:
In China, US Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage said that the discovery was new proof that North Korea was a major proliferator of weapons.
Of course, you'll never find the Us or the UK doing anything like that. |
"My body is a temple - I desecrate it daily." |
|
|
|
Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2002 : 03:00:50 [Permalink]
|
quote:
NottyImp:Of course, you'll never find the Us or the UK doing anything like that [proliferating weapons].
Oh, no! See, we only give weapons to good guys!  |
|
|
|
a65phalcon
New Member
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2002 : 09:26:36 [Permalink]
|
Problem: Rogue country, with hostile leader, engages in the buying and selling of weapons. Weapons hat could very well be equipped to deliver chemical or biological deterrents.
Not a Problem: Country that has weapons of mass destruction, but would in theory never be allowed to use them. Hence the Cold War.
Problem: People who are ignorant to the action of preemptive deterrence. (Why do you think Sadam hasn't done anything major in the years following the Gulf War?)
Not a Problem: At any given day there is what is known as an ARG (Amphibious Ready Group) or a carrier group in the vicinity of Iraq. (Preemptive deterrence).
Now I understand fully that there are several ways to go about this. But I truely do not agree with the notion that the US forced N. Korea into selling anything. No matter what action the US takes, there is such a thing as the "black market". I mean it is kinda like saying by Canada not be involved they forced NK to sell armaments on the black market just to spite their non-involement. |
|
|
|
@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2002 : 09:52:27 [Permalink]
|
Not a Problem? You are saying Russia is not a problem? I dunno but at least you didn't totally blow it and say the USA, a country that has actually used nuclear weapons and chemical weapons on its own peaple! God, those Americans are as bas as Hussein.
@tomic
|
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
|
|
|
a65phalcon
New Member
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2002 : 10:49:59 [Permalink]
|
Ahhh I don't know who is saying Russia is not a problem? There is a reason why it is was a cold war and not a hot war. It was based solely on the fact that the leaders of each country had the understanding that if one used a nuke, so would the other. However, when you do not have a state to relate to, i.e. terrorists, you do not fear retaliation. That is the whole deal with terrorism vs. a cold war situation. Not to mention diplomacy. I don't know too many terrorists that have diplomats to the UN representing their respective orgs.
@tomic I find your post semi-confusing. I was a guinea-pig to several chemical agents while I was in the service; however I never felt that my life was at risk. So if you are saying the US promotes the use of clearly dangerous material upon its troops, I disagree. However that is very questionable to an extent. The problem is the proof. The cold war allowed for several "shady" situations. These conspiracy theories are far too numerous to mention on this board. I would like to see the proof (outside of the original testing) that America used nukes against itself. If you are truly curious about the cold war and said mentioned "shady" situations there is a pretty good book that describes just a few. Check out Blind Man's Bluff," at the moment the authors name escapes me. But I wouldn't class Hussein in the same boat as "Uncle Ronnie".
|
|
|
|
@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2002 : 11:07:50 [Permalink]
|
I suggest you do more research. The US government has publicly admitted to these tests. One of these admissions came just weeks ago involving testing nerve gas in Hawaii. There are many more, public, admissions. These are not secrets and are well known. A Google seach should yield you a tremendous number of links. I have actually talked to someone involved in the testing of US troops. Well, he was a testee. Scientists would send him out to hose off ships after Pacific tests while they monitored from a distance. But that is but one case. I really can't believe you call this a conspiracy theory when it's common, public knowledge.
And the record shows that the US was more than ready to use nuclear weapons until other nations had them. Oh, and I would absolutely lump Hussein with "Ronnie" because "Ronnie" helped make Hussein the man he is today.
@tomic
|
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
|
|
|
Kaneda Kuonji
Skeptic Friend
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2002 : 11:30:44 [Permalink]
|
Well, the thing of it is, the US is in a Catch-22: Either we get criticized for not getting involved, or we catch heat for getting involved in business where the US doesn't belong when we do get involved in something. Of course, bad policy-making and poor foreign relations has a lot to do with it.
The US made its own grave and now has to lie in it. I am hoping this isn't the case, and that cooler heads will prevail. |
Rodney Dean, CI Order of the Knights of Jubal
Ivbalis.org
|
|
|
|
a65phalcon
New Member
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2002 : 17:29:24 [Permalink]
|
Here is my take on it @tomic.....there is a problem with your postings. I was one of those guys. I was the MOPP instructor for my crew. So don't speak as if I have no knowledge of this subject. And the ships you are talking about are ships that are decom'd. They test it, inspect it, wash it off, and sink it. Many of the admissions on the internet are a far cry from the truth. Some are forged and believe it or not, flat out lies. I am frankly surprised at you. More often then not @tomic you are a semi-voice of reason. Don't believe everything you read brother.
I am not a heavy Rep. but to label or even put Ron in the same category as Sadam is pretty crazy. Yea Yea Iran Contra. Try reading "The Nightingake's SOng" by Rob Timberg. Then maybe you will have a bettter understanding. DOn't suggest I should do some studying up on it. While you can test the waters with me on problems of religion, poli sci is another story. But once again I am drawn off topic. I could care less about the parallels between Sadam and Ron. Is it at all posssible to read the topic and post on it. Rather than post on something that I didn't post about. Look up and read the topic. I am not trying to be a dick but my discussion has nothing to do with Iraq. I hope you understand.....
Here is my problem with the route we are taking as a country. I think we are spreading ourselves to thin and GW is possibly listening to the wrong people. Does the broadened security act allow for proper intervention. The very fact that we seized the ship was something out of a CLancy novel. When can you go too far as a country? |
|
|
 |
|
Topic Locked
