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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
 Posted - 01/02/2003 : 21:33:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Legallee Insane
I don't know whether to believe this or not. It reeks of hoaxishness but what if it isn't.
The big thing that gets me is that this is like playing god, and seeing as how I don't believe in god, that makes it even worse. That would mean we were playing the part of a non-existent being.
ROFLOL. Good one,Insane.
quote:
The other claim that I found quite funny was the claim that they could download a person's personality at the moment of death and transfer it to a clone. This is the most impossible load of cr@p I have ever heard. Your genetics aren't the only thing responsible for your personality and its impossible to download someone's personality into a computer.
Oh, really! Isn't it? Isn't it???
Apparently you haven't watched enough Twilight Zone episodes. |
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Kilted_Warrior
Skeptic Friend
Canada
118 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2003 : 22:12:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
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The other claim that I found quite funny was the claim that they could download a person's personality at the moment of death and transfer it to a clone. This is the most impossible load of cr@p I have ever heard. Your genetics aren't the only thing responsible for your personality and its impossible to download someone's personality into a computer.
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Oh, really! Isn't it? Isn't it???
Apparently you haven't watched enough Twilight Zone episodes.
If only the human mind were organized into .jpg and .zip files, things would be so much easier...
Maybe someday in the future we could just hook a firewire connection into the backs of our necks and download stuff |
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welshdean
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
172 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2003 : 01:39:54 [Permalink]
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If we completely disregard the possibilities of cloning and whether or not the raelians have succeeded or not. We are then left with the morality of the exercise.
I would firmly support the efforts made by any group to pioneer the first human clone. Can you imagine the possibilities that would present itself to us all. Is there a single male on this board that wouldn't welcome a younger, firmer, less saggy version of his missus. Imagine if you could have her back with the body of an 18year old. Mmmmmmmm.
Granted, one would want to download the mind of a bloke into her brain, no more illogical arguements, no more nagging, somebody to sit and watch the game with. And to top all benefits, she would then know how to decorate, take the rubbish out AND change a plug all by herself.
BRING IT ON! |
"Frazier is so ugly he should donate his face to the US Bureau of Wild Life."
"I am America. I am the part you won't recognize, but get used to me. Black, confident, cocky. My name, not yours. My religion, not yours. My goals, my own. Get used to me."
"Service to others is the rent you pay for your room here on earth."
---- Muhammad Ali
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2003 : 05:39:11 [Permalink]
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I think that the whole idea of downloading memories and selves into new bodies if thankfully quite a lot further away then making copies of our bodies.
There is little to be gained from cloning humans itself. We will sooner or later do it because the possibility is there, but it won't be much use at first. There is no profit to be made from cloning humans. All the stuff that might end up being usefull won't actually be cloning anymore. (growing a lot of humans very fast, growing parts of humans very fast or making perfect copies of humans)
The copying of minds actually frightens me a bit, because once we can do that, the whole idea of what it means to be human will have to be rethought. Even if mankind survives that rethink it won't be recognizable to us anymore. |
To any insufficiently advanced person technolgy becomes indistinguishable from magic. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2003 : 08:05:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
I think that the whole idea of downloading memories and selves into new bodies if thankfully quite a lot further away then making copies of our bodies.
A lot of the sci-fi by John Varley dealt with this very thing.
But, even if your personality and so forth is somehow put into your clone after your death, YOU are still dead  . The clone might look and act like you, be geneticly the same as you, but it ain't YOU, even if it's dating your girl or boy friend(s). Even if we cloned Einstein, there's no way be sure we'd get the same Albert. Instead of a great thinker, we might get an excellent, Jewish fiddle-player in an obscure bluegrass band. 
So, one must ask: What's the point 
f |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2003 : 10:44:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
But, even if your personality and so forth is somehow put into your clone after your death, YOU are still dead . The clone might look and act like you, be geneticly the same as you, but it ain't YOU, even if it's dating your girl or boy friend(s).
Wouldn't it? If you are not defined by your body and are not defined by your memories, then what are you defined by? Your soul? If it is the quality of the copies that is your problem then we can work something out. Like making copies on star-trek-transporter-level technology.
That is what frightens me. Somewhere there is a point at wich that what makes you you and me me can be copied. Worse yet they can be manipulated. You can fiddle with the very essence of what makes you you. At that point traditional concepts like you and me will lose their meaning and we will have to make up new ones. |
To any insufficiently advanced person technolgy becomes indistinguishable from magic. |
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welshdean
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
172 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2003 : 15:01:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Lars_H
Wouldn't it? If you are not defined by your body and are not defined by your memories, then what are you defined by? Your soul? ......
....That is what frightens me. Somewhere there is a point at which that what makes you you and me me can be copied. Worse yet they can be manipulated. You can fiddle with the very essence of what makes you you. At that point traditional concepts like you and me will lose their meaning and we will have to make up new ones.
This opens up a whole new can of worms, it's basically (presuming no technological interference) a case of Nature V Nurture.
If you're swayed toward the nature end of the spectrum; no problems. The clone would be EXACTLY like the dna donor.
If, however, your swayed toward the nurture end then EVERYTHING in it's life would have to mirror the donors exactly. Same kids in school, same parental guidlines, same decisions to the same choices etc etc etc.
edited for formatting purposes (twice, because I'm a tool)
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"Frazier is so ugly he should donate his face to the US Bureau of Wild Life."
"I am America. I am the part you won't recognize, but get used to me. Black, confident, cocky. My name, not yours. My religion, not yours. My goals, my own. Get used to me."
"Service to others is the rent you pay for your room here on earth."
---- Muhammad Ali
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| Edited by - welshdean on 01/03/2003 15:05:39 |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2003 : 18:23:34 [Permalink]
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Gee...what they need now to raise the drama a bit, is for the "Wicked" Raelians from the West (quadrant of the Galaxy) to show up. (The "Wicked" Raelians look just like the "Good" Raelians except that their 1950s futuristic SciFi movie costumes are shinny black rayon instead of white rayon.) They could claim that they are the real clones of the "White Suited Raelians" and demand equal time! Yeah - Oh...I just noticed how I'm dressed. (See left image.) Well then, we're all dressed properly for the 21st century!
Check out these clones: http://www.electroephemera.com/cellwrap/images/queenofouterspace.jpg |
Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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Deborah
Skeptic Friend
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2003 : 20:54:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by welshdean
If we completely disregard the possibilities of cloning and whether or not the raelians have succeeded or not. We are then left with the morality of the exercise.
I would firmly support the efforts made by any group to pioneer the first human clone. Can you imagine the possibilities that would present itself to us all. Is there a single male on this board that wouldn't welcome a younger, firmer, less saggy version of his missus. Imagine if you could have her back with the body of an 18year old. Mmmmmmmm.
Granted, one would want to download the mind of a bloke into her brain, no more illogical arguements, no more nagging, somebody to sit and watch the game with. And to top all benefits, she would then know how to decorate, take the rubbish out AND change a plug all by herself.
BRING IT ON!
My bet is the younger, firmer, less saggy female version wouldn't be interested in the old man who was lusting after her. And just for the record Welsh, if you were my boyfriend you would look like this ---> |
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Deborah
Skeptic Friend
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2003 : 21:01:54 [Permalink]
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| Just for the record, I don't believe the alien worshipping wackos cloned anything. I'm not against cloning and I think it definitely could be beneficial for organ transplants. I also have to respond to someone's comments about it being selfish. Big deal! What is so different between that and having a kid? Tell me what you think the primary reason for having kids are? |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2003 : 00:21:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Deborah
And just for the record Welsh, if you were my boyfriend you would look like this --->
ROFLMAO |
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2003 : 00:24:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by welshdean
quote:
Originally posted by Lars_H
Wouldn't it? If you are not defined by your body and are not defined by your memories, then what are you defined by? Your soul? ......
....That is what frightens me. Somewhere there is a point at which that what makes you you and me me can be copied. Worse yet they can be manipulated. You can fiddle with the very essence of what makes you you. At that point traditional concepts like you and me will lose their meaning and we will have to make up new ones.
This opens up a whole new can of worms, it's basically (presuming no technological interference) a case of Nature V Nurture.
If you're swayed toward the nature end of the spectrum; no problems. The clone would be EXACTLY like the dna donor.
If, however, your swayed toward the nurture end then EVERYTHING in it's life would have to mirror the donors exactly. Same kids in school, same parental guidlines, same decisions to the same choices etc etc etc.
edited for formatting purposes (twice, because I'm a tool)
I did not mean about clone technology being used for this.
A clone is a pure copy methode for a human being, because DNA is not really the blueprint that we want it to be. Human beings are build a lot more complicated then that. So a clone would be less like the original then a identical twin. Growing up differently will make the difference only worse. The difference is there before the nuture part actually starts.
But if we had the technology from bad sci-fi shows and the raelians imagination to transplant memories, then there would be trouble. |
To any insufficiently advanced person technolgy becomes indistinguishable from magic. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2003 : 00:31:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
So, one must ask: What's the point
f
Well, what was the point of splitting the Atom? Flying a kite in a lighting storm? Setting off to sail across an ocean (before Man knew there was another side AND he thougth he'd fall off the edge)?
One might even ask, what was the point of crawing out of the sea?
OR, why did the chicken cross the street? |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2003 : 04:43:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
OR, why did the chicken cross the street?
To show the 'possum it could be done.
Which is about all the point I see thus far in human cloning.
f |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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NubiWan
Skeptic Friend
USA
424 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2003 : 14:46:27 [Permalink]
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Immortality is the 'point' of it, or at least one point of it. Actually, it would be a major step toward immortality at least. Ya would/should scramble yer clone or clones, gray matter at birth, then ya have perfectly matched organ donners at the ready, on demand. Of course there would be considerable expense involved. Ahh.., so there is a 'naturally' imposed limit, only the wealthy could avail themselves of this possiblity.
Profit, yas want profit? How 'bout slaves? No worry, they aren't really human afterall. Think even yas would have to aggree, along with the vast majority of humanity that worships almighty god in the religion of their chosing, these creatures would have no 'soul.' Just think of the medical advances, we could make with test subjects such as these. And what a relief of not actually having to supply warriors from within our own families, to cast off the yoke of suppression from various folk, what don't see things our way.
Wish the 'High Preists of Science' would get hot, and develope a 'science of wisdom,' or the science of leadership selection, before we travel too far down all the other paths of science... |
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