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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
 Posted - 08/11/2001 : 10:10:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
I have no love of criminals. However, I do not want to forfeit my personal freedom in what is (IMO) a misguided attempt to catch a select few.
That's the problem and we are seeing it said here on these posts. People think it's ok, that they are not going to ever do anything wrong but let's get all the law breakers.
It COULD happen to you and then where will you be? You WILL want every oppertunity to prove you didn't do it.
quote:
Hey, Snake, Garrette loves us. Think he'll still respect us tomorrow? 
Wendy Jones
Ah, a threesome. Cool!
Rap Crap is to music what Paint by Numbers is to art. |
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Penyprity
Skeptic Friend
64 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2001 : 22:25:12 [Permalink]
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[quote]
I would like to know why private enterprise is any different to government. Except that the population has more control over the government and the government is always a monopoly there isn't much difference.
Gee, Bestonnnet, Im sorry if you think I misinterpreted what you meant here. Sounds like you think government and business is the same, except for a control issue.
As for your "love it or leave it" attitude, I love my country, dont always love my government. Thats why I love my country. I can do and say both. I can write about it, or give speaches about it or go vote for changes. I do not have to just accept what my government does. I can even demonstrate if I so choose. This is a great country. That is why I protest against things like camera's in intersections. They violate my personal freedoms in all the ways you must have read about in the posts here. If the camera is aimed high enough to get the front lisence plate off my husbands front dash, then its high enough to see what else is in the car. No thank you. We should not put the innocent on trial to catch the guilty.
Edited by - Penyprity on 08/11/2001 22:37:58 |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2001 : 04:34:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
If the camera is aimed high enough to get the front lisence plate off my husbands front dash, then its high enough to see what else is in the car.
That gives me a thought.
As some of you know, I like to be nude whenever possible (I'm nude now, as I'm typing...not a pretty sight ) Wellllllll! How about we all undress while driving and really give them something to photograph. Heh, he, they'd be too busy giving indecent exposure tickets to give speeding tickets.
At least your insurance won't go up with a ticket like that.
Rap Crap is to music what Paint by Numbers is to art. |
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bestonnet_00
Skeptic Friend
Australia
358 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2001 : 14:21:43 [Permalink]
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OK, so you seem to think a human who can forget and let is more reliable then a camera which can be designed not to forget and with a bit of work can be made very hard to tamper with.
One of the things I don't like about the adversarial system of justice is that it relies on oral evidence too much. Sure it can be cross-examined, but its pretty hard to get a perjury conviction if someone lies because people can be mistaken easily.
Putting more weight to documental evidence would be a good idea as it is more reliable then what a witness says (often it is the word of one person against another).
As for the siren audio. Don't lights usually flash when the siren is turned on? Wouldn't the camera be likely to pick those up?
As for liberties, you have to remember that liberties often contradict. That means you (or the majority of people or their representatives) have to decide which should be given more importance.
Being that I live in a place where red light cameras already exist I don't tend to think of it in a negative light.
As for safety checks on cars. They should require all cars over say 5 years old to have been checked to make sure they can safely drive on the road. There sure are a lot of bombs on the road, wouldn't be hard to lose control of some of them.
As an added bonus it might make leaded cars get off the road faster.
Radioactive GM Crops.
Slightly above background.
Safe to eat.
But no activist would dare rip it out.
As they think it gives them cancer. |
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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2001 : 17:00:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
As for the siren audio. Don't lights usually flash when the siren is turned on? Wouldn't the camera be likely to pick those up?
That's a excellent question, and I suppose the answer varies from region to region. There was an accident here a few years ago involving a city police cruiser responding to a call "lights only" (no siren). The officer said that he did not use the siren out of consideration for the people who lived in the area who need not be disturbed by his presence. He felt that the lights would be sufficient to allow any one on the road to observe him and yield. It was common practice among police officers here, particularly late at night. Kentucky is a comparative negligence state, and he was found to be partially at fault for the accident. As a result, officers here are required to use both light and siren when they are responding to a call, but I believe (at least here) that their controls still operate independently of one another.
Wendy Jones |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2001 : 22:41:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
As for the siren audio. Don't lights usually flash when the siren is turned on? Wouldn't the camera be likely to pick those up?
Also there are times when it is advantageous to the officer not to announce their arrival. Especially when the officer is responding to a call where there is the likelihood of someone being seriously injured. Most domestic violence calls are lights only or no lights/sirens calls.
There are many reasons for officers to respond sans siren.
(BTW, my brother is a patrol cop - so this is valid for the Denver Metro only, to my knowledge. Each city/county has their own regulations regarding lights and sirens.)
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell!
Edited by - Trish on 08/12/2001 22:42:46 |
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bestonnet_00
Skeptic Friend
Australia
358 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2001 : 13:37:01 [Permalink]
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Being able to respond on lights only might be a useful thing to have, however the cop should be more careful as people are less likely to see the lights then they are the sirens.
Although normally they should use the siren and lights to be easier to notice (hopefully people don' have their radio too loud).
Radioactive GM Crops.
Slightly above background.
Safe to eat.
But no activist would dare rip it out.
As they think it gives them cancer. |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2001 : 23:16:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Being able to respond on lights only might be a useful thing to have, however the cop should be more careful as people are less likely to see the lights then they are the sirens.
Do you really want to get a hostage, beaten spouse, someone in general killed when that person panicks at hearing the siren? That's why they respond sans siren - so as NOT to alert the perportrator of the crime. I don't think I can make this any more clear. No Lights No Sirens means that they want to arrive without announcing themselves so that they might have a chance of diffusing the situation before it escalates due to panic at the siren.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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bestonnet_00
Skeptic Friend
Australia
358 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2001 : 13:32:21 [Permalink]
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The reason they would want to be easy to notice is so that people can get out of their way.
If they don't want to be easy to notice then they can turn the lights/siren off (but should drive more carefully as people wont know they are on call).
I never said that they should always have their sirens on.
Radioactive GM Crops.
Slightly above background.
Safe to eat.
But no activist would dare rip it out.
As they think it gives them cancer. |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2001 : 19:52:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Although normally they should use the siren and lights to be easier to notice (hopefully people don' have their radio too loud).
Nuff on that. I misread/interpreted - again did this with Tergiversant since I was over tired that day. Apologies.
Yet, sans siren is also a safety issue. Most cops when responding will *chirp* their sirens at intersections.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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bestonnet_00
Skeptic Friend
Australia
358 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2001 : 00:33:11 [Permalink]
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There are systems that have been trialed whereby the emergency vehicle sends out a radio signal which a device in a car recieves.
That way it can warn the driver and maybe even cut the radio out to allow the siren to be heard (don't know if it can do all that, heard about it a long time ago).
Such a system would be very good to have, although it would need to be well designed to be hard to hijack (could be a good practical joke to play on people).
Radioactive GM Crops.
Slightly above background.
Safe to eat.
But no activist would dare rip it out.
As they think it gives them cancer. |
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Mespo_man
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2001 : 08:31:32 [Permalink]
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Hi All,
So as not to hold you in suspense, here's what happened to the security camera video of the traffic accident involving the county sheriff. The video WAS admissible evidence.
SETUP:
The camera was 30 feet above street level pointing South. It's field of view included the East-West / North-South intersection. The day was bright and sunny. The sheriff was coming from the East. (left) The sedan was traveling South, from bottom to top in the camera's field of view.
AND, ACTION...
The sheriff was responding to a silent alarm and was using lights only. He made a judgment call that the sedan entering the intersection from HIS right was not responding to his lights so he hit the siren.
The camera ONLY SHOWS the last 8/10 of a second before the crash. The sound of the siren had bounced off a one story brick building to the right of the sedan and the sheriff was entering the intersection from the left. Remember that there was no audio, but the video shows the occupants in the back seat looking both left and right, trying to determine the source of the siren.
You can't see the driver or the front seat passenger, but how long does it take you to say OH SHIT! Neither does the video show any attempt at evasive maneuvers, braking or accelerating by the driver. The sheriff's brakes were locked and smoke was pouring from the tires as he slid into the sedan.
OUTCOME:
When all was said and done, the video only confirmed that a collision had occured. The sedan driver was cited for not yielding to an emergency vehicle, and the sheriff was criticised, (but that's all) for not hitting the siren sooner or attempting evasive maneuvers. The echoes made by the siren bouncing off buildings and the lack of contrast of red and white rotating lights (not flashing; not blue; not yellow) were contributing factors, but still didn't get the sedan driver off the hook nor did he get any compensation. (although the Sheriff's department DID pick up the medical tab).
Keep those cameras rolling, folks. We'll get it right someday.
(:raig |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2001 : 08:50:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
That gives me a thought.
As some of you know, I like to be nude whenever possible (I'm nude now, as I'm typing...not a pretty sight) Wellllllll! How about we all undress while driving and really give them something to photograph. Heh, he, they'd be too busy giving indecent exposure tickets to give speeding tickets.
At least your insurance won't go up with a ticket like that.
Snake, not to throw water on your idea, but it's been done. In German magazines, they sometimes print the pictures for entertainment. Imagine, a 4-door sedan going through an intersection, and a shot of four "full moons". Please don't ask me how the car was being steered.
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2001 : 16:40:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
There are systems that have been trialed whereby the emergency vehicle sends out a radio signal which a device in a car recieves.
That way it can warn the driver and maybe even cut the radio out to allow the siren to be heard (don't know if it can do all that, heard about it a long time ago).
Such a system would be very good to have, although it would need to be well designed to be hard to hijack (could be a good practical joke to play on people).
There are systems in CO (don't know about elsewhere) that turn the light at the intersection so the patrol car has the right of way. IOW, when the police respond to a call they automatically get green lights at every intersection. Pain when your sitting at the turn light and the thing turns red right as you start to accelerate. Usually lose the turn signal the next light sequence too. Oh well...
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2001 : 22:58:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
How about we all undress while driving and really give them something to photograph. Heh, he, they'd be too busy giving indecent exposure tickets to give speeding tickets.
At least your insurance won't go up with a ticket like that.
Snake, not to throw water on your idea, but it's been done. In German magazines, they sometimes print the pictures for entertainment. Imagine, a 4-door sedan going through an intersection, and a shot of four "full moons". Please don't ask me how the car was being steered.
Lisa
That is so cool. I've never been to Germany. I wouldn't mind brushing up on my German either. Are there still no speed limits there?
Auf Wiedersehn
Rap Crap is to music what Paint by Numbers is to art. |
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