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rickm
Skeptic Friend
Canada
109 Posts |
 Posted - 07/12/2001 : 22:12:25
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I have just joined SFN and the conversation here is brilliant. I have been arguing with the Jehovas Witnesses for a year and a half having debates with them, I don't know how many times I told them I do not believe, they keep coming back. Perhaps it is because I am not nearly as versed as the people posting here.
I have a question I'm sure someone can answer
Why does time start at the supposed time of the birth of Jesus? How did that come about?
If God did not want us to eat cows he would not have made them out of meat
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rickm
Skeptic Friend
Canada
109 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2001 : 23:15:14 [Permalink]
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Nevermind I found the answer. Regarding the whole gregorian thing. Should have looked harder before asking.
If God did not want us to eat cows he would not have made them out of meat |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2001 : 01:22:00 [Permalink]
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Welcome to the board Rick. There are a lot of topics here, besides religion, so feel free to jump in. Folks here are nice and don't argue (too much) or flame (very badly). Any subject is up for debate and discussion, so don't be shy.
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2001 : 01:55:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
I have just joined SFN and the conversation here is brilliant.
Yes, rickm, there are a few here who are very intelligent. I know them personaly and vouch for them highly, myself. Very nice people.
quote:
I have a question I'm sure someone can answer Why does time start at the supposed time of the birth of Jesus? How did that come about?
Never read the bible, don't know. Can you tell me what you found?
quote:
If God did not want us to eat cows he would not have made them out of meat
Well! That's kind of disgusting but welcome anyway. Ha ha. Bet Kil will agree though.
VHEMT |
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rickm
Skeptic Friend
Canada
109 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2001 : 19:31:35 [Permalink]
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Snake
The information I have found is at
http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/lds/anno.html
However after checking it again I find it was written by the president of the LDS. Now I am not sure how true the information is, it seems to be sound but who knows?
If God did not want us to eat cows he would not have made them out of meat |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2001 : 20:22:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Now I am not sure how true the information is, it seems to be sound but who knows?
What it says is true. 'Cause it leaves out a lot of the good stuff like Dionysius Exiguus means Denis the short. He was a drinker and got the year wrong (by Roman reference) by 3 years. He's the one who forgot about the 0, which was why you party like it's 1999 and not 2000.
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The brain that was stolen from my laboratory was a criminal brain. Only evil will come from it. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2001 : 01:49:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
Snake
The information I have found is at
http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/lds/anno.html
However after checking it again I find it was written by the president of the LDS. Now I am not sure how true the information is, it seems to be sound but who knows?
LOL. Ok. And thanks to Slater too.
quote:
If God did not want us to eat cows he would not have made them out of meat
[/quote]
And that above is still disgusting.
VHEMT |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2001 : 12:30:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Dionysius... He's the one who forgot about the 0,
To be fair to poor Dennis, he was working with Roman numerals and not Arabic, so there wasn't a Zero to use and it was an easy mistake.
But keep in mind Rickm that starting time itself with the birth of the fictitious Jesus character shows nothing but the incredible civil power and arrogance of the Christian church. It reflects no "truths of nature." Please note the little "In God We Trust" printed on the money of a nation founded on the principal of the seperation of church and state. These guys are sneeky and will stick their advertising anywhere that they can get away with it. Sheer vandalism if you ask me.
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The brain that was stolen from my laboratory was a criminal brain. Only evil will come from it. |
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rickm
Skeptic Friend
Canada
109 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2001 : 16:09:19 [Permalink]
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Hi Slater
In Canada we do not have any religious stuff printed on our money. We choose rather to pledge allegiance to a queen who has not had any control over our country in many many years. I don't know which is better.
If God did not want us to eat cows he would not have made them out of meat |
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rickm
Skeptic Friend
Canada
109 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2001 : 22:06:41 [Permalink]
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I find myself feeling intellectually inferior here, and notice myself hanging on people like slaters every word. I have verified some of his postings and found them to be quite accurate
I eventually stopped referencing his stuff because I found it unnecessary, because I felt his research to be addequate. As long as we have a society with different intellect we will have people
“imposing their views”. I consider myself to be smart enough to recognize this but do not have the means to overcome it, perhaps after years of life experience and research I will have a better understanding but then again maybe I won't.
So here is the problem, should one be suspect to all information or can we take some people's word for it. Is this not the whole problem with fundamentalist religions and cults. Is it simply a case of a higher intellect controlling people of a lesser intellect. It probably has nothing to do with what is taught because I feel that is irrelevant.(Unless hatred is being spread then it is not irrelevant) It could be anything, however religion seems to be the easiest thing to convince people of because of make believe consequences from God. And once someone has been convinced of something it is very hard to change their mind.
I personally have found it impossible to debate Jehovas Witnesses, greatly due to their ability to twist scripture to match their beliefs, and will not hear of logic. When cornered they seem to believe that they are debating against satan and refuse to continue further. I have enough experience with this, two of them have been visiting me for a year and a half. I think the only reason they keep returning is because they manage to meet their quota of required preaching time since I do not slam the door in their face. I have always been intrigued with why people manage to get themselves swayed over to that way of thinking. I have decided it is impossible for me to change them probably due to lack of education, but I doubt also that someone of higher intellect would have any more luck .
So what happens, they are fighting a futile war trying to save us from Satan and we are fighting a futile war trying to save them from stupidity. Should either of us care.
Note: At least people like slater are not using their intelligence to corrupt but to educate(This is my view) perhaps others would disagree, I don't know.
If God did not want us to eat cows he would not have made them out of meat |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2001 : 04:50:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
In Canada we do not have any religious stuff printed on our money. We choose rather to pledge allegiance to a queen who has not had any control over our country in many many years. I don't know which is better.
Hey, watch it rickm, LOL. My mother was born in Canada and always respected the Queen. Ah, but that was another time, huh!
BTW, there are those who cross out the 'in god we trust' on the paper money.
quote:
If God did not want us to eat cows he would not have made them out of meat
YUK!!!! Are they made of meat or are they meat because Man says they are?
VHEMT |
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rickm
Skeptic Friend
Canada
109 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2001 : 09:58:40 [Permalink]
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Snake
The cows made of meat thing is something I heard from a comedian and thaught it was funny it has no other meaning for me just a joke.LOL
If God did not want us to eat cows he would not have made them out of meat |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2001 : 21:45:54 [Permalink]
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I … notice myself hanging on people like slaters every word.
If there were more people like you the world would be a better place 
I consider myself to be smart enough to recognize {that if we have a society with different intellect we will have people "imposing their views"} but do not have the means to overcome it
The trick is to never go on the defense. If people make outlandish claims (gods, magnetic shoes, tin bracelets that cure arthritis, "grays" from outer space…whatever) demand proof before you will even consider their claims. It is not up to you to prove them wrong, after all it isn't you who are claiming anything. Don't be afraid to laugh at them. I know that is rude and it wouldn't make Mom happy, but these people forfeit politeness when they are rude enough to knock on strangers doors and try to get they to change their beliefs. Remember the Xian saying "do onto others." If they are doing on to you then do right back at them.
So here is the problem, should one be suspect to all information or can we take some people's word for it. It depends on the claim. If I said to you that I took the trolley down to Fisherman's Warf today. I thought that I would go for a visit to Alcatraz but the boats were full.--There would be no need to check a claim like that, it's just too mundane to require proof. In fact it wouldn't matter much if it were true or not. But if I told you that since I couldn't get on a ferry I walked across the water to the tourist spot then you should definitely demand proof.
Trust yourself. If someone tells you that the Moon is inching away from the Earth, check their facts. It will at least be interesting research.
It could be anything, however religion seems to be the easiest thing to convince people of because of make believe consequences from God.
That's actually a very difficult thing to get people to believe. That is why they have to start on you when you are in the cradle. I don't know anyone of my generation who was raised in an Atheist household but I know any number from my children's generation (20's--30's). They all find the very idea of a god to be laughable.
I personally have found it impossible to debate Jehovah's Witnesses, greatly due to their ability to twist scripture to match their beliefs, and will not hear of logic.
There's the problem--scripture. What does it matter if they twist them even more than they already are twisted? They are a bunch of stories in a bastardized Greek about the goings on with a bunch of tribes in the Eastern Mediterranean thousands of years ago. Can there be anything so obscure or boring?
The only way that the scriptures gain anything resembling authority is if there is a god who authored them. Not only a god but (of all the thousands of gods that people have claimed) that one particular god, Yahweh. So refuse to hear anything about scripture until they prove the existence of Yahweh. Then prove that Yahweh was the author. Then you'll listen.
(Sidebar: In classic Jewish writing they leave out all the vowels and only write in consonants supplemented by "jots & tittles" The name Yahweh might actually be Yahoowahoo.)
Witnesses are not trained to debate this question, only minutia in the bible. They will wave their hands about and claim that creation (the world) itself demands that there be a creator. When they do that you have them. All their insistence of the need for a creator would also apply to the creator himself. They will try to weasel out of this making a "special claim" for god. Demand to know why that special claim couldn't be used for the world itself. I have never met one who did not leave at this point.
Remember, it is they who are making the claims. They must provide proof of them. The Bible is a claim not a proof.
Point out to them that if they can't prove what they are saying is true then there is no way that they themselves c |
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rickm
Skeptic Friend
Canada
109 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2001 : 22:32:07 [Permalink]
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Thanks Slater, and once again you fail to dissapoint me.
Snake the new signature is for you.
"What would chairs look like if our knees bent the other way" |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2001 : 00:01:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Thanks Slater, and once again you fail to dissapoint me.
Snake the new signature is for you.
"What would chairs look like if our knees bent the other way"
ROFLOL. And much appreciated.
I was going to comment on your previous post, but no need now.
VHEMT |
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Bradley
Skeptic Friend
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2001 : 11:05:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
In Canada we do not have any religious stuff printed on our money.
Canada does indeed have religious graffiti on its money. The phrase "dei gratia regina" or the abbreviation "d. g. regina" means "queen by the grace of god." Of course, how else could one claim to be a monarch except by divine right?
"Too much doubt is better than too much credulity."
-Robert Green Ingersoll (1833 - 1899) |
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