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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
 Posted - 03/27/2003 : 04:16:10
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At work, listenning to Fresh Air last night, I was surprised to hear a little dissent, and some sharp criticism of Rumsfeld by Terry Gross' guest, Joseph Galloway. I was surprised because this is the first media report that I've found in the American press that wasn't towing the administration line, or ellaborating on Pentagon breifings, with the exception of the eyewitness reports of the 'embedded' reporters. Obviously, Galloway is a journalist commenting on military strategy, but I would not expect, nor wish to hear any public dissent within military ranks.
Anyway, I thought a few of y'all might be interested in hearing a different media perspective.
http://freshair.npr.org/day_fa.jhtml;jsessionid=N4LIYUCAGWGTNLA5AINSFFI?todayDate=current
For those sound impaired, or just don't like to listen to their news, here's a similar article that I just ran across;
http://www.dailytelegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/03/26/wrums26.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/03/26/ixnewstop.html
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"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2003 : 06:17:13 [Permalink]
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It's not the first time Rumsfeld has been criticised during and before this war. Reports are that he has damaged many diplomatic headways made with his "Old Europe" comments and slander of Germany. Many have said that he should really just keep his stupid mouth shut.
It seems to me he is just the "tooliest" of the tools in the Bush Administration's toolshed. |
Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2003 : 13:28:53 [Permalink]
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Rumsfield should be fired. "Shock and Awe" was a stupid idea and Americans are going to die because he didn't brush the dust off of Gulf War analysis to see how it didn't work then. Going in without more troops was another fiasco. The planners of this mess should be canned before they completely fuck us over but let's hope they go soon because the fuckers over have a hell of a head start. I sure wish it was spring of 2004...
@tomic |
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2003 : 01:08:03 [Permalink]
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| I never understood how "Shock and Awe" should win over the Iraqi people. Hasn't that failed in every single war it was tried? |
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2003 : 03:22:56 [Permalink]
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I'll be the first to admit that I don't get my news from a wide range of media outlets. My main source is AM radio. Then I may get 10 to 20 minutes of cable news from Fox, CNN or MSNBC. Daily, I download some stuff from the web onto my Palm for later reading, but that is seldom current events. This might explain why this story is the first dissent about the administration's plans that I've heard from the media. To be honest, I'm still wondering where all the commotion about the Hollywood crowd comes from. I've heard nothing but quotes from people like Dennis Miller, Arnold Schwartzeneger, John Travolta and Bruce Willis. I have no idea what the weird and crazy Hollywood kooks like the Dixie Chicks and the Sheen family are ranting about, and what flake was booed at that last awards show. I'll I know is that they're insane! (And, Emilio went to Iraq).
What I'm trying to say is, if I am an example of what stories many Americans are exposed to, then it is understandable why so many of us so staunchly defend the recent actions of the administration. The major broadcast media outlets report only one view, and most Americans will not read a news paper, (and my local paper is more conservative than Fox).
If I had not heard this article on NPR, then I would now be wondering why Rumsfeld is now sending 100,000 more troops to Iraq as he said had been the plan all along, though the logic of leaving your supply lines unprotected, your flanks unguarded, and your general need for reinforcements at home for even the first week of hostilities eludes me. I guess that I'll just never understand the great military minds like Donald Rumsfeld... |
"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
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NottyImp
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
143 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2003 : 03:49:39 [Permalink]
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"Shock and Awe" comes from this study:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1579060307/qid%3D1048848270/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/102-6919834-6636130
One of its authors (I forget which) was on British radio essentially saying that what the coalition troops were doing now was not a full implementation of this study. Not having read it, I can't comment.
Certainly there are plenty of bombing campaigns that have failed in their objectives, and there is now clearly a form of Iraqi Nationalism coming to the fore that may be ambivalent to Saddam, but is definitely hostile to the US & UK invasion. |
"My body is a temple - I desecrate it daily." |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2003 : 10:25:02 [Permalink]
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Perle resigns as key Rumsfeld adviser
The house of cards loses one of the many supporters
"He has been an excellent chairman and has led the Defense Policy Board during an important time in our history," Rumsfeld said. "I should add that I have known Richard Perle for many years and know him to be a man of integrity and honor."
Translates to....I like him because like me he like to blow shit up.
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Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2003 : 10:26:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by @tomic
Rumsfield should be fired. "Shock and Awe" was a stupid idea and Americans are going to die because he didn't brush the dust off of Gulf War analysis to see how it didn't work then. Going in without more troops was another fiasco. The planners of this mess should be canned before they completely fuck us over but let's hope they go soon because the fuckers over have a hell of a head start. I sure wish it was spring of 2004...
@tomic
@tomic, the swear words pour out of your mouth.....your'e not pissed off are you..... |
Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
| Edited by - gezzam on 03/28/2003 10:33:54 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2003 : 11:28:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
@tomic, the swear words pour out of your mouth.....your'e not pissed off are you.....
He ain't alone, gez. He ain't alone.
The war has barely started and I'm already sick of hearing about it. The network spin on it is worse than 'Nam.
And we stood passivly aside and allowed these slimey, larcenous motherfuckers to walk right in.
Ashamed.......
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2003 : 13:13:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
The network spin on it is worse than 'Nam.
The thing that saddens me is that most of the population swallows it hook, line and sinker.
In Melbourne we have two main daily newspapers. They are The Herald Sun and The Age, one slightly leftist in regards to this war and the other one would do American news media proud. The Herald Sun is the latter and you may want to read their main editorial writer Andrew Bolt. He loves America and will out and out lie to put his crap forth. The readers love him, even saying that anti-war protestors should be charged for treason. They love democracy, but don't disagree with them or you are an ill informed "peacenik". I beg to differ on the ill informed part, but I digress.
What I was going to say before I went on a tangent was that I can't even read the Herald Sun anymore for the pandering it does to Bush's war. Calling it a just war and hoping that a few pictures of the Brits handing out food will justify our country joining in this madness.
When you get down to it, I'm just as cross as you guys because we have a government that pandered to the xenophobic nature of this country and lied about refugees throwing children overboard the boats they came to Australia in to divert attention from our ailing health system and hopeless new tax system.
I better stop now I'm just rambling on like an old woman....
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Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2003 : 13:21:04 [Permalink]
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Now it seems Syria is on Rummy's hitlist....
Rumsfeld Warns Syria on Iraq Equipment |
Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2003 : 14:46:33 [Permalink]
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What's this I hear about the wargames training? They didn't include any scenarios wherein Iraqi troops were using guerilla tactics? Who was the genius who decided to skip that part?
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I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery.
-Agent Smith |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2003 : 14:56:19 [Permalink]
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The war planners seem to have skipped a lot of things. Nothing is going as planned on all fronts. Refugees have not poured out and some that did leave the country are returing to fight the American invaders. What's happening is Bush's worst nightmare. Nothing pulls a country together like an attack on your own soil. You'd think we'd have learned that lesson after September of 2001. What we now have is people that may hate Saddam but hate us a lot more. If you think about that long and hard for a minute you begin to see what America means to the arab world. In a popularity contest we lose to Saddam. Yes, think long and hard about that one because it's one of the biggest concerns we have.
Do you feel safer now? I sure don't.
@tomic |
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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NottyImp
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
143 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2003 : 02:15:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
In a popularity contest we lose to Saddam.
That sums it up perfectly, Atomic. And let's face it, even in the Middle East you'd have to work quite hard to be less popular than one of the more brutal dictators the world has seen recently. |
"My body is a temple - I desecrate it daily." |
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starshine
New Member
Canada
3 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2003 : 11:34:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
He ain't alone, gez. He ain't alone.
The war has barely started and I'm already sick of hearing about it. The network spin on it is worse than 'Nam.
And we stood passivly aside and allowed these slimey, larcenous motherfuckers to walk right in.
Ashamed......
(hope I did that right)
I appreciate hearing these things from time to time, because up here it seems all we're getting is 'how dare you Canadians not support the US', and 'I'm a proud Albertan because Alberta is kissing Bush's ass'....
*shudder*
and I don't know about you, but I sure am not being passive; maybe that's the problem. about people being passive, I mean. I haven't stopped writing to my politicians, and signing petitions, and protesting. maybe that's why my government is reluctant to join this war - because they know that many Canadians are deeply opposed, and they (the citizens) are taking the time to let them know.
or maybe it's because our government doesn't tend to ignore large numbers of its population. oh, wait, it usually does.
strange, though, if you think about it, because our leader isn't seeking re-election; Bush is.
not really much to be done now, though; now that they're in, they might as well finish the job, or else they might decide to do it all again in another 10 years.
I do think it's sad though, that most of the population is buying into it. because that's exactly what Bush wants, that's what will get him re-elected.
scary. |
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2003 : 01:18:48 [Permalink]
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| The last major screw up was that the Pentagon reported that they had to dig in for a few extra days to wait for supply lines to open up. Is this part of Rumsfeld's 'revolving troop deployments' or something like that? Wasn't this one of the original criticisms that has now become part of the plan? I need to go study military strategy. It must be Rumsfeld's version of 'rope a dope.' |
"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
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