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@tomic
Administrator

USA
4607 Posts

Posted - 07/20/2001 :  08:33:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit @tomic's Homepage Send @tomic a Private Message
The partisans ended up bullying and stealing from their own people. Why because they had guns and therefore could.

Yes the partisans were an excellent example.

I do blame ammendment for guns being in the hands of some of the groups you mentioned. I bet many of those guns are American made and widely available because of American policies and because they have been so easy to get in the US, they have found their way overseas.

You bet I blame the 2nd Ammendment.

I am all for confiscating pocketknives too so that I am not forced into this mini detente where each and every person needs to arm themselves.

It's insane.

@tomic

Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
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Garrette
SFN Regular

USA
562 Posts

Posted - 07/20/2001 :  09:00:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Garrette a Yahoo! Message Send Garrette a Private Message
quote:
I do blame ammendment for guns being in the hands of some of the groups you mentioned. I bet many of those guns are American made and widely available because of American policies and because they have been so easy to get in the US, they have found their way overseas.

You bet I blame the 2nd Ammendment.



An unsupportable stretch.

quote:
The partisans ended up bullying and stealing from their own people. Why because they had guns and therefore could.



Some did; you are correct.

quote:
I am all for confiscating pocketknives too


I call this ridiculously extreme, and we will never agree on this.

My kids still love me.
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Garrette
SFN Regular

USA
562 Posts

Posted - 07/20/2001 :  11:09:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Garrette a Yahoo! Message Send Garrette a Private Message
I almost forgot to respond to this:

quote:
The reason the Swiss rifle murder rate is so low is because the guns are strcitly controlled. However their handgun murder rate is quite high (they also have rather liberal handgun laws).


First, this is self-contradictory ("guns are strictly controlled" as opposed to "they also have rather liberal handgun laws."

Second, both contentions are simply untrue.

All manner of military style weapons, machine guns and mortars included, are available without special license for maintenance in the home. Handguns require a cantonally issued license that is given to everyone who requests them so long as they are not a criminal or mentally infirm. No cantons in Switzerland restrict the carrying of long guns anywhere. About half restrict the carrying of handguns.

The handgun murder rate is not high at all. If you have statistics to the contrary, I'd like to see them.

My kids still love me.
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Snake
SFN Addict

USA
2511 Posts

Posted - 07/20/2001 :  19:00:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Snake's Homepage  Send Snake an ICQ Message  Send Snake a Yahoo! Message Send Snake a Private Message
quote:

The police should not be outgunned by criminals - I think we remember some of the problems with a particular bank robbery in CA. (Snake can probably enlighten us since he's from somewhere close to that vicinity.)

I live 5 mins. or so(depending on traffic, ha ha) away from that bank. Closer then Kil. He and I have had debats about the police. It's all a matter of ones perception. I happen to respect the police and think their hands are being tied by polictial correctness.
I watched some of that robbery on TV, don't get too excited by things like that. Crime is all over, in my area at least. Not always to that extrem but when it happens to you, a house break in is just as bad. The police are doing as good a job as they can with what they are given. I've been a volunteer with my local department and have gone out on surveillance with them, I've seen and heard about things the average citizen doesn't.
IMO, criminals are going to get guns, of what ever kind, when ever they want them. Limiting guns that others can have is not going to make a difference(in crimes), be it assaults to other persons or anything else where a gun is involved.

VHEMT
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Piltdown
Skeptic Friend

USA
312 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2001 :  01:54:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Piltdown an AOL message  Send Piltdown a Yahoo! Message Send Piltdown a Private Message
UPDATE!!!!
Accused cop killer Richard Robinson has been set free! Forensic testing has determined that the fatal bullet did not come from any of Robinson's 13 guns, it was apparently fired by another police officer. http://www.lubbockonline.com/stories/072001/upd_robinson.shtml

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ljbrs
SFN Regular

USA
842 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2001 :  08:30:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ljbrs a Private Message
I keep no deep friendships with people who own guns or who have fascinations about guns. They become acquaintances, but that's it. I very quietly and carefully distance myself without making an issue of it. I simply think that people who need to own guns have problems that I do not wish to share. The same goes for people with unmedicated emotional problems. I do not want to be near when they are off their medication...

ljbrs

Perfection Is a State of Growth...
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular

USA
1447 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2001 :  14:43:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Tokyodreamer a Private Message
quote:

Forensic testing has determined that the fatal bullet did not come from any of Robinson's 13 guns, it was apparently fired by another police officer.


Then it's apparent that the danger of accidently being shot by a police officer by far outweighs any benefits of them having guns. They should be taken away, because I personally don't want to have to worry about being accidently shot by a police officer.

------------

Ma gavte la nata!
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@tomic
Administrator

USA
4607 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2001 :  14:54:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit @tomic's Homepage Send @tomic a Private Message
The funny thing is, that the only time I was ever anywhere near being shot was by a police officer. And it was because of a false silent alarm that sent the police to my place. I opened the door to let my cat out and I was face to face with a policeman leveling a gun at me.

That's a fun wake up!

@tomic

Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
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Snake
SFN Addict

USA
2511 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2001 :  19:23:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Snake's Homepage  Send Snake an ICQ Message  Send Snake a Yahoo! Message Send Snake a Private Message
quote:

I very quietly and carefully distance myself without making an issue of it. I simply think that people who need to own guns have problems that I do not wish to share. The same goes for people with unmedicated emotional problems. I do not want to be near when they are off their medication...

ljbrs


Don't have many friends, do you?
Not that one needs any, of course. ljbrs, whatever you say. That's fine. Nice ljbrs, nice.

VHEMT
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Lisa
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2001 :  23:51:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Lisa a Private Message
Does this whole gun debate include hunting rifles? If we'd have to give those up, that freezer in the basement would be really bare in a couple of months.
Lisa

Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done
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ljbrs
SFN Regular

USA
842 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2001 :  16:40:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ljbrs a Private Message
quote:
Don't have many friends, do you?
Not that one needs any, of course. ljbrs, whatever you say. That's fine. Nice ljbrs, nice.

VHEMT



Oh, I have a lot of friends. However, none of them are dangerous. I am simply picky when it comes to people I would feel comfortable with.

ljbrs

Perfection Is a State of Growth...
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Snake
SFN Addict

USA
2511 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2001 :  19:51:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Snake's Homepage  Send Snake an ICQ Message  Send Snake a Yahoo! Message Send Snake a Private Message
quote:

Oh, I have a lot of friends. However, none of them are dangerous.
ljbrs


How would you ever really know? Many times it's the quiet unassuming guy next door who everyone says they are shocked when he goes crazy. Or the sweet young mother who pushes a car in the lake and kills her kids. Humans are strange animals.

VHEMT
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Garrette
SFN Regular

USA
562 Posts

Posted - 07/23/2001 :  06:59:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Garrette a Yahoo! Message Send Garrette a Private Message
quote:
I keep no deep friendships with people who own guns or who have fascinations about guns. They become acquaintances, but that's it. I very quietly and carefully distance myself without making an issue of it. I simply think that people who need to own guns have problems that I do not wish to share.


A laudable way to exercise your right to freedom of association, even if based on the faulty assumption that all those who own guns do so because they have 'problems.'

My kids still love me.
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular

USA
1447 Posts

Posted - 07/23/2001 :  10:35:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Tokyodreamer a Private Message
quote:

quote:
I keep no deep friendships with people who own guns or who have fascinations about guns. They become acquaintances, but that's it. I very quietly and carefully distance myself without making an issue of it. I simply think that people who need to own guns have problems that I do not wish to share.


A laudable way to exercise your right to freedom of association, even if based on the faulty assumption that all those who own guns do so because they have 'problems.'



But is this really any different than simple bigottry?

------------

Ma gavte la nata!
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Bozola
Skeptic Friend

USA
166 Posts

Posted - 07/23/2001 :  11:13:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Bozola's Homepage Send Bozola a Private Message
quote:

I opened the door to let my cat out and I was face to face with a policeman leveling a gun at me.



They never suspect the cat, do they? Maybe little Muffins is trying to get you killed for the insurance money.



Bozola

- Practicing skeet for the Rapture.
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