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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 05/30/2003 : 12:15:55
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They feed us shit but will you call it ice cream?
Here's a tasty teaser from an upcoming magazine article where Wolfowitz basically admits the world was lied to about our reasons for going into Iraq.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030530/ap_on_re_eu/wolfowitz_iraq_4
These people are criminals and need to be removed and put into jail.
When you wonder why people hate Americans or think we are unethical it's because of assholes like this. He is basically saying we had reasons to go into Iraq that had nothing to do with defense. He is basically saying that the USA ruined a country and killed lots and lots of people because we fucked up so bad in 1991. He is basically saying we went to war for reasons no one n the world would go along with so we lied and you all believed it and I don't give a shit so there. Freedom for Iraqis is conspicuously missing from this article. It's as if your armed forces and our entire nation is just a tool for evil men to do evil deeds.
This is our shame.
I also love how every time a US soldier is killed in "post war" Iraq it's blamed in Baath party loyalists. It couldn't possibly be anyone else could it? Nevermind that so many Iraqis want us out now. It's gotta be those pesky Baathists.
But of course this is from the people that feed us shit but call it ice cream.
Film at 11.
@tomic
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Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2003 : 12:47:23 [Permalink]
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| This is not an aberration of the system. This is the system. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
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Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2003 : 04:18:11 [Permalink]
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As a european I would just like to say that not all of us hate all of "you". But I do get a funny feeling when I watch Letterman and Leno, and how they never miss an opportunity to make fun of the french, as if firmly drumming into the public the misconceptions.
What noone seems to tell the public, is at least some parts of the history that some western nations including USA share with Iraq. The ties between the two countries (when I say "country" I don't mean all of you, but rather the regime) in the past were pretty strong. Rumsfeld seems to have been involved in that too, which makes it weird to hear him talk about how they are liberating the Iraqi people and bringing them freedom. I guess if that was the reason, then perhaps they shouldn't have let the CIA influence the Iraqi political scene in the first place, something which helped Saddam become president.
I think that most of the disapointment here in Europe is directed towards Bush and his regime, who doesn't appear as the wisest president USA ever had. If I would guess, it's a mix of many things. Some don't like him because of his environmental policy, including not signing the Kyoto treaty (as I understand it, though, he couldn't have done it even if he wanted to?). Others have seen USA as an imperialistic power who does pretty much what it wants with the rest of the world as long as it benefits them, including supporting and overthrowing tyrants and terrorists. And then there's the religion... Even our foreign minister herself once said that one of the things that bothered her most about Bush's rethoric was him talking about God and includes religion sometimes when he speaks. This may not be the biggest reason why there's a rift between Europe and USA, but perhaps not insignificant either. I must of course tell you that we have religious freedom and we all think that is important, but it's not so popular to mix politics and religion (even if there are some such parties, moderately popular ones too).
Anyway, it's not the people of America that some of the world hates, but instead the leaders and the foreign policies. Personally, I am getting tired of the lies and the false facades and the hidden agendas. The sad thing is that few people realize that there's so much going on behind the curtains that they are never told. And what they don't know, never happened...
I'm not trying to bash the whole nation of USA, there are many things that fascinates me and that I like, too. |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2003 : 17:25:52 [Permalink]
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Mav, you are, of course, correct, and most of us understand you're sentiments. However, at the moment, there is little we can do about all of the issues you raised about the new face of the US abroad. In a sense, we are helplessly frustrated by the incessant Constitutional breaches of this administration. The sad part is that this president probably has enough support to carry him into another term. This may turn out to be dissasterous to the US in matters of foriegn policy, the economy and individual liberty. The damage this man can do seems to now exceed that of the Congressional red-baiters of the 1950's. It could take decades to repair the damage.
The main problem here is that a slight majority of the voting public has bought into this mentallity that you must support us %100, or you're supporting the enemy, and that enemy changes with the subject matter. What we need to do is to mobilize those Americans that normally do not vote, but this would require an immediate and detrimental change in those people's everyday lives. And, that my friend is my fear.
quote:
it's not so popular to mix politics and religion
To some, politics is religion, and religion politics. Here, the right wing was able to capitalize on the perceived 'new' moral degredation of the modern world as seen by fundamentalist and evangelical Christians. These socially conservative Christians were led by a group of greedy political preachers that were more than eager to prostitute themselves to big business. With the medium of TV, they became big business, and their followers fell lock step into the 'new' Christian philosophy that wealth and property is good, despite the words of their own messiah.
Now, the Republican party has been able to combine the financial abilities of corporate America with the immense voting block of conservative Christians. The corporations, with the protections of the Bill of Rights, are able to be far more influential than the individuals that the Bill of Rights was intended to protect in the first place. The consevative Christians, though not an extremely large part of our population are very well organized, and are exceptional at fund raising. This group of voters, as well as wealthy Americans are many times more likely to vote than most Americans. Most Americans are content to watch as our leaders sell our souls to the Company Store.
Today, into the new millenium, this unholy alliance has been able to solidify their control over the last bullwork against complete control. Corporate ownership of most of the media, and the personal financial interests of the well paid broadcast media personel has managed to stifle any meaningful dissent. Dissenters are often even ridiculed in the press without even stating what their objections are. Unremarkable one day numbers in the stock market are deemed lead stories while an increase in jobless rates over the last quarter are given short shrift on the same broadcast. Business news is the most extensively covered in specialized TV programs, while the rights, hardships and interests of working people are mentioned only on the few occaisions when a national union threatens strike, or one of the infrequent times lately when one of its' officers is accused of some sort of graft. Of course, a positive story about worker gains will only be mentioned as another attack on the supremacy of the free market.
This administration, (I'll not say prsident, because I am often suspicious of how much influence people like Carl Rove have), will continue to ignore US law, and the best interests of the people to consolidate control. It saddens me to watch how easily those people that work side by side with me continue to eagerly and happily give up their freedoms to support an administration that cares nothing for them, and will show no compassion for the average person that will be left standing in the street with not even their personal dignity intact.
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"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
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Fireballn
Skeptic Friend
Canada
179 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2003 : 22:55:49 [Permalink]
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Maverick, Leno and Letterman make fun of the French because they give them too much material.....
Gallic Wars: Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian.
Hundred Years War: Mostly lost, saved at last by a female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French
Warfare - "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchmen."
Italian Wars: Lost. France becomes the first and only country ever to lose two wars when fighting Italians.
Wars of Religion: France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots.
Thirty Years' War: France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.
War of Devolution: Tied; Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.
The Dutch War: Tied.
War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War: Lost, but claimed as a tie. Deluded Frogophiles the world over label the period as the height of French Military Power.
War of the Spanish Succession: Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved ever since.
American Revolution: In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare: "France only wins when America does most of the fighting".
French Revolution: Won, primarily due to the fact that the opponent was also French.
The Napoleonic Wars: Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.
The Franco-Prussian War: Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk Frat boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.
WWI: Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States. Thousands of French women find out what it's like not only to sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.
WWII: Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States,Canada, and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.
WWII France gives up capital without firing a shot.
WWII France rounds up it's Jews without being ordered too by the Germans
War in Indochina: Lost. French forces plead sickness, take to bed with Dien Bien Flu.
Algerian Rebellion: Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a Western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of Muslim Warfare -"We can always beat the French." This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese, and Eskimos.
War on Terrorism: France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe.
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If i were the supreme being, I wouldn't have messed around with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers 8 o'clock day one!
-Time Bandits- |
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Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2003 : 16:30:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
It saddens me to watch how easily those people that work side by side with me continue to eagerly and happily give up their freedoms to support an administration that cares nothing for them, and will show no compassion for the average person that will be left standing in the street with not even their personal dignity intact.
I am worried by this kind of thinking too. The very idea to give up freedoms in the name of freedom makes little sense. But, if a people have been taught that they are free, then of course nothing can change that. Or, if it can, people will think it's worth it. At least until they wake up and all the candles have burned out, and matches are outlawed... |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2003 : 02:09:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
I keep wondering why Powell stays on the Bush team.
Frankly, I think Powell is a soldier to the bitter end. |
"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2003 : 10:45:10 [Permalink]
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| Yeah, well, with Dubya having an approval rating of 60 plus percent and a population that doesn't care whether there were weapons of mass destruction pointed at Omaha or not, good luck. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2003 : 11:15:25 [Permalink]
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Nixon was at least as popular around the time of Watergate. People need to really think about this. What's right, what's wrong and how sad it is to send our sons and daughters off to fight a war because a handful of hawks have their own special plan.
People also need to consider this: If our intelligence is finding weapons and threats that turn out to be fantasies, could they be missing weapons and threats elsewhere that are real? In other words are these idiots dooming us all so they can persue their special hobbies?
@tomic |
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2003 : 11:57:49 [Permalink]
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They think they're the better people and they need to run things the way they see fit, even if it means lying to achieve their aims. Not unlike just about every other president before them. Dubya definitely thinks Jesus is on his side.
None of this bodes well for any kind of life for the rest of the Arab or even the Muslim world. Watch the Palestinians get screwed big time. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2003 : 14:34:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
None of this bodes well for any kind of life for the rest of the Arab or even the Muslim world. Watch the Palestinians get screwed big time.
What, you mean Bush's Roadmap to Peace won't favour the Israelies???
Well I never. |
Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2003 : 14:45:54 [Permalink]
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| Nothing Bush does will favor anyone in the long run, probably, but I assume that he will continue to want to favor the Israelis at the expense of the Palestinians as has been the policy of the U.S. for decades. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2003 : 15:27:48 [Permalink]
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If Israel keeps a single settlement and any more than half of Jeruselum the "road map" will be favoring Israel. Anyone besides William Bennett want to bet that Israel keeps all the best land they stole?
@tomic |
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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