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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
 Posted - 01/14/2005 : 19:27:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
]We are talking about concetrated thoughts through deep levels of consciousness that could possibly effect the external world.... the world beyond our bodies...
Storm, why would anyone even possibly begin to accept all that when it can't even be done with trivial coin flips? I don't mock you, I'm trying to reason with you. It only seems like mocking because reason is such an alien concept to you.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 01/14/2005 19:45:49 |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2005 : 20:18:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
It only seems like mocking because reason is such an alien concept to you.
Bullshit H. Humbert!!! Bullshit!!!! |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2005 : 20:27:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
We are talking about concetrated thoughts through deep levels of consciousness that could possibly effect the external world....
Here we go again: Storm, please give us precise definitions for "concentrated thoughts" and "deep levels of consciousness." Neither of these terms are in common use, so "we" aren't talking about any such thing. You might be talking about them, but nobody else here can know what you are talking about until you define the terms.quote:
before you say no to the possibilities why not test it for yourself ? Try it with someone close ... I did...
Test what, precisely? What is 'it'? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2005 : 20:33:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Bullshit H. Humbert!!! Bullshit!!!!
How is it bullshit? If you possess reason, I've never seen you able to demonstrate it. You can't even see why things needs to be tested from simple -> complex before making assumptions. Yeah, you have no idea how science works. You've been told that from the beginning. Logic and reason are not inherent in people, you need to train yourself to make use of them. Those are the tools Dude was telling you about, but conveniently you ignored him.
So don't come crying when people laugh at your ignorance. You invite it.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2005 : 21:22:33 [Permalink]
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You're kidding, right? A volume at least 56 years old? The author does little but make assertion after assertion:It is by this time incontestable that a violent or deep emotion can be transmitted instantaneously from one mind to another, however great the distance that separates the mind experiencing the emotion from the mind receiving the communication. This is, assuredly, the very thing we contest here. What Maeterlinck assumes to be true is that for which we ask evidence. No evidence exists in The Unknown Guest, just a pure and unadultered faith that the stories he has read are true in every detail.
But the idea that anyone can be certain that an experiment is "mathematically" free from fraud is nothing but unmitigated arrogance. Maeterlinck was a poet and playwright, and obviously a romantic idealist.
Hell, he even thinks Clever Hans was really clever.
And, contrary to your implication, Storm, I failed to find a single natural explanation offered. Maeterlinck claimed that there were "spiritualistic" or "mediumistic" explanations for the phenomena, but the explanations were firmly rooted in the paranormal.
Perhaps you just don't get it: neither the ability to transmit emotions as Maeterlinck describes, nor the ability for a consciousness to exist outside the brain, are normal. There is absolutely no reason to think these things happen, and certain natural laws (for which we have mounds of evidence) suggest they cannot. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2005 : 19:21:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
quote:
How things that initially have the potential/appearence of being paranormal or supernatural, yet in the end had a simple natural explanation.
I believe that telapathy is natural...
How many times must we spell it out to you?
Your use of the word natural does not conform to the definition the general scientific community assigns it. Nor does it to the vast majority on these forums. Science is not decided by popular vote though, we know this. That's why we call on you to show evidence that you're right. Thus far, you haven't.
Believing ghosts to be natural instead of paranormal doesn't make it so. Ghosts are natural only in your own mind.
Paranormal: Beyong the scope of normal objective investigation or explanation.
(The Concise Oxford Dictionary, 8th ed.)
Do you really think that ghost is within the scope of normal objective investigation?
Supernatural: Attributed to or thought to reveal some force above the laws of nature; magical; mystical.
(The Concise Oxford Dictionary, 8th ed.)
If ghosts or telepathy can be manifested by the laws of nature, why are there no consistent effects detected, as evidence that they follow those laws?
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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shadowwarrior13
New Member
2 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2005 : 11:49:50 [Permalink]
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| I apologize for my previous post a little while back. I wasn't thinking very clearly. Now, for all of you saying "There's no scientific evidence to back it up", I'd like to disagree. for there also isn't scientific evidence existing to not back it up. There's nothing saying it can't happen, for we're basing out judgements off of knowledge we already have of humankind. If we only go on what we already know, of course we can't do all of this. I would gladly test this scientifically, if not for my age limitations. The way society is set up, I would have to wait a few years for this to mean anything. If I had any type of video recording device, which I'm in the process of getting, I'll gladly perform any act of "telekinesis" under any circumstances. When I do get a camera, I'll post, and then make all of the demands you want, barring it be glued down. (No tape either :P) |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2005 : 12:07:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by shadowwarrior13
Now, for all of you saying "There's no scientific evidence to back it up", I'd like to disagree. for there also isn't scientific evidence existing to not back it up.
But these aren't the same thing, shadowwarrior13. There's also no evidence that there isn't a fire-breathing clown hiding under my bead. But were I to aver that this is the case because no one can convince me that it can't not be the case, you'd think me insane (if not for that, then for constructing that horrible double-nagative!). Think about it-- if we had to rule anything possible that couldn't be proved not possible, we'd be stuck in a world wondering about Zeus, Invisible Pink Unicorns, the evil eye, Masonic conspiracies, and so on!
As for:quote:
If I had any type of video recording device, which I'm in the process of getting, I'll gladly perform any act of "telekinesis" under any circumstances. When I do get a camera, I'll post, and then make all of the demands you want, barring it be glued down. (No tape either :P)
I eagerly await seeing proof that you can move objects through mental power alone! |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2005 : 14:31:31 [Permalink]
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Shadowwarrior13, if you can move objects with your mind, I have some great news for you! You're rich. Heck your famous too. At least you will be in about a month.
Contact Randi at Randi.com and simply show some experts (that both you and he agree on) what you can do and you will recieve one million dollars. That will be small change compared to what will happen after that. You can tour the country and make 100 time that money. I'd pay to see you.
Good luck on your new found fame and fortune! Don't waste your time trying to convice us. Show the world what is possible with the human mind - and if you get stinking rich on the way well so be it!
PS. don't let the fame go to your head, as has happened with so many rock stars and movie stars.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
| Edited by - furshur on 02/06/2005 20:32:37 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2005 : 20:19:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by shadowwarrior13
Now, for all of you saying "There's no scientific evidence to back it up", I'd like to disagree. for there also isn't scientific evidence existing to not back it up.
This is one of the classic standard errors in Logical Reasoning. Cuneiformist showed you what conclusions can be made following your line of reasoning.
Since the non-existance of something cannot conclusively be proven, you have to re-write the question to make a positive assertion.
Once you have done that, present the evidence supporting the assumption.
quote:
I would gladly test this scientifically, if not for my age limitations. The way society is set up, I would have to wait a few years for this to mean anything. If I had any type of video recording device, which I'm in the process of getting, I'll gladly perform any act of "telekinesis" under any circumstances. When I do get a camera, I'll post, and then make all of the demands you want, barring it be glued down. (No tape either :P)
We are looking forward to it. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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ClonerStive
New Member
4 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2005 : 06:47:08 [Permalink]
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I was reading some of the threads and came across this. . .
quote:
Originally posted by Computer Org
I have concluded that the 'telepaths' have condemed their own selves --- to a life of bumbling incompetence, living off of other's thoughts like a bunch of mental lampreys, incapable of producing an original thought of their own (--because they've never had to).
Ok, I'm sorry, but when I read this. . . I got a bit. . . Irritated.
You're referring to the very rare (And I think non-existant) "natural telepaths" (People who have always known how to do telepathy with out practicing). Though SOME of these people may be incompetent, saying all of them are, is like someone saying every skeptic is an ass, which is clearly untrue. Further more, telepathy, like everything else in psionics, can be learned. Just like every else in life, you have to practice. Also, like everything else in life, some people pick it up quicker than others. I, myself, have practiced telepathy, so, are you to say I'm some skinny stupid guy, withering away in a corner?
Also, something I feel I must clear up. . . Psionics is a word based off a greek letter, meaning unknown, which is what a majority of it is. The main reason I got into it, was so I could find evidence either proving, or debunking psionics. After finding out it worked by personal experience, I now am trying to figure out how it works. I'm researching and studying various branches of it. This, I think, should be what most psions (people who study/practice psionics. . . not some legendary worrier :P) should be doing.
One more thing I should note. Psionics probably isn't what most of you think it is. It's not "omg I'm gonna make teh dbz kamehameha!1!1!!!!," nor is it something you'd be able to blow away a car with. It's much more subtle than that. Most psiballs cannot be seen, unless "flared" (making a psiball visible). A simple psiball can't do anything. It's just an exercise in energy manipulation. As for telekinesis, no one thinks they are going to pick up someone with their brain and throw them across the room. Again, it's much more subtle. Most people start out by trying to make a small pin wheel turn. Eventually, they move on to more heavy things, such as making pencils roll, pushing caps, etc. TK is like a muscle, you must practice before you can move heavier things. The claims arn't as extreme as a few of you make them out to be.
Yes, I know most of you are being mature skeptics, as I am, but I feel this needed to be said for a select few who have been, well. . . assholes :P. Now that you are a bit more informed of the claims, you can argue the other side a bit more accurately.
Oh, and no, I'm not trying to convince anyone that this is real, just trying to stop the inaccurate flames and insults. . .(Quote seen above. . .and the one below)
quote:
I'm new here so I don't know how much you guys know about cecrtain things on the net. This has to be the dumbest, these guy have people convinced they can shoot psi-balls and do telekenesis. Check out the media page. you can even chat to them, they seem to be totally for real.
This was coming from some one who can hardly type strait. **sigh** I hope he's changed since then. . . |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2005 : 07:03:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ClonerStive
The claims arn't as extreme as a few of you make them out to be.
They are extreme enough for me.
A lot of assertions. How about some evidence?
You can earn a cool million dollars if you are able to prove your abilities.
Let the excuses begin...
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"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2005 : 08:28:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
I, myself, have practiced telepathy, so, are you to say I'm some skinny stupid guy, withering away in a corner?
To us skeptics this is like saying I have practiced flying by flapping my arms real fast, so we don't think you stupid we just think you are wasting your time deluding yourself.
quote:
A simple psiball can't do anything. It's just an exercise in energy manipulation. As for telekinesis, no one thinks they are going to pick up someone with their brain and throw them across the room. Again, it's much more subtle. Most people start out by trying to make a small pin wheel turn.
No one has made so much as a human hair bend with the 'force of their mind'.
quote:
Yes, I know most of you are being mature skeptics, as I am, but I feel this needed to be said for a select few who have been, well. . . assholes :P. Now that you are a bit more informed of the claims, you can argue the other side a bit more accurately.
You are not a skeptic. You are stating as fact something which has never been seen, been recorded or been proven.
You would be world famous, rich and would further the cause of psi-stuff if you would simply demonstrate your abilities publicly. I personally will champion your cause and begin practicing psi-ball stuff immediately upon your successful public demonstration. I am eagerly looking forward to you enlightening the world because even though I am a skeptic I would love to do psi-magic stuff.
Please don't keep me and the world waiting!!
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2005 : 08:46:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ClonerStive
Yes, I know most of you are being mature skeptics, as I am, but I feel this needed to be said for a select few who have been, well. . . assholes :P. Now that you are a bit more informed of the claims, you can argue the other side a bit more accurately.
Oh, and no, I'm not trying to convince anyone that this is real, just trying to stop the inaccurate flames and insults. . .(Quote seen above. . .and the one below)
... Is that you, Del? |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 02/18/2005 08:48:29 |
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