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byhisgrace88
Formerly "creation88"
USA
166 Posts |
 Posted - 06/26/2003 : 09:05:54
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I am sick of you being condisending,
its not that im not willing to learn or have "my head in the sand" it's that nothing in evolution makes sense. and YOU not me are searching out things that you disagree with in what i say. and your not exactly looking like you jumping at a chance to "learn". and if you can give me five way the bible controdicts its self that are at all credible, ill be shocked
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Indeed, if we consider the unblushing promises of reward and the staggering nature of the rewards promised in the Gospels, it would seem that Our Lord finds our desire, not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.-- C.S. Lewis |
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Phobos
New Member
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2003 : 10:01:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by creation88
that nothing in evolution makes sense.
From your other posts, it seems that you have not studied the actual theory of evolution...just some misrepresentation of it from other poorly informed creationists. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2003 : 10:02:24 [Permalink]
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Hi ceation88--
I don't know anything about your argument with 'dave w.' so pardon me for barging in on your discussion. However, I've read a few of your posts and wanted to help you (and the rest of us) out a bit by giving some general tips on English spelling and grammar:
you're = you are, such as "you're going to have to leave this room"
'your' shows possession, like "your job is really difficult"
they're = they are, like "they're really smart"
their shows possession, like "their ideas are lame"
When you use 'were' and you mean 'we are' you should use the apostrophe (') so that it doesn't look like you're writing 'were,' the past tense of the verb to be.
Sentences like "and your not exactly looking like you jumping at a chance to 'learn'." don't make any sense. Perhaps before clicking on the 'submit reply' button, you should read through what you've written to see if it sounds right.
Finally, I am a rotten speller so I try to stick to using words I can spell correctly. If I want to use a word that I am unsure about, I try to look it up. I can't tell you how to spell it correctly, but I'm certain that "condisending" isn't spelled right. Same with "controdicts."
These may seem like trivial things, and I'm not writing to make fun. However, it is often difficult to read posts when you have to wade through passages that don't use punctuation, butcher spellings, and jumble sentences together. By making a post that's easy to read, it makes it easier for all of us to participate in thoughtful, productive debate.
Have a nice day. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2003 : 10:07:33 [Permalink]
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Thank you, Cuneiformist. Thank you, thank you, thank you! He's been driving me batshit!
While my own speling leaves something to be desired, I at least, try.
Welcome to SFN!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2003 : 10:20:20 [Permalink]
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I think Dave W has come to his conclusions in an orderly way. You have been the one saying that you won't change what you believe in. If you are not prepared to question, then you have no hope.
Man got to where he is now by asking questions.
quote:
and YOU not me are searching out things that you disagree with in what i say
This is called asking questions, you are simply refuting what theory Dave W, myself and others here currently subscribe to. If you come up with some credible evidence to make us question what we think right now, we would take it on board. However you are simply sprouting the same unproven creationist dogma from books and websites we have read and found to be nonsensical. There are some pretty smart cookies that post here, I beg you to read what they say and hopefully you will learn something. Ask questions and they will only be too happy to provide answers to the best of their ability. Believe me, I have learnt a hell of a lot reading posts here in the past two years. The main reason is because I came here with an open mind. Maybe you will learn something as well, somehow I doubt it.
quote:
if you can give me five way the bible controdicts its self that are at all credible, ill be shocked
Im far from an expert in theology, but I did a quick google search and found these, from Contradictions in the Bible
quote:
He that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness.
- Mark 3:29
And by him that believe are justified from all things.
- Acts 13:39
Interpreted: This first verse is Jesus speaking to his disciples. He is basically saying that the one thing that can not be forgiven is blaspheming against the holy ghost. He continues by saying that they run the risk of eternal damnation.
The second verse is from Acts, written by the same author who (apparently) wrote the Gospel of Luke. It is Paul addressing the congregation at Antioch. Paul is saying that through belief in Jesus the Christ, all things are forgivable. No exception is made, making me think that Paul was not aware of Jesus' teachings.
quote:
Who carried Jesus' cross?
... and led him out to crucify him. And they compel one Simon a Cyrennian, who passed by, coming out of the country, the father of Alexander and Rufus to bear his cross. And they bring him unto the place Golgotha, which is, being interpretted, The place of a skull. And they gave him to drink wine mingled with myrrh: but he received it not. And when they had crucified him...
- Mark 15:20b-24a
Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus and led him away. And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha. Where they crucified him...
- John 19:16-18
Interpreted: Clearly some further differences in the respective fairy tales of the Jesus resurrection. Who carried the cross? Neither of the authors of these tales can say for sure because they were not there.
quote:
Who were Jesus' disciples?
And when it was day , he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles:
Simon, (whom he named Peter,) and Andrew his brother, James and John, Philip and Bartholomew,
Matthew and Thomas, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon called Zelotes,
And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor.
- Luke 6:13-16
Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus whose surname was Thaddaeus; Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
- Matthew 10:2-4
Interpreted: The first list was more than likely written second but includes a second Judas. The second list has a Lebbaeus Thaddaeus and only one Judas
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quote:
Did John recognize Jesus before the baptism?
Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
But John forbade him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
- Matthew 3:13-14
And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
- John 1:32-33
Interpreted: The first verse indicates that John the Baptist recognized Jesus before the baptism and tried to resist doing it. The second verse says that John did not recognize Jesus for who he was until after the baptism when the Holy Spirit descended upon him.
quote:
Who has seen God?
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
- Genesis 32:30
No man hath seen God at any time.
- John 1:18
Interpreted: Genesis 32 is the chapter where God changes Jacob's name to Israel. In verse 29 Jacob asks God for his name. God replies by asking where it was that Jacob was asking from. Jacob replied the above verse.
John 1:18 is pretty self explanatory. He is describing Jesus and how he declared the Lord God. He makes it clear that No man has ever seen God. I guess John was not familiar with the Old Testament.
I'll probably get howled down by someone though
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Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2003 : 10:58:02 [Permalink]
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Dang, lots of replies before I got done with my research...
Creation88 wrote:quote:
I am sick of you being condisending,
Hey, if you want to discusss these scientific matters scientifically, instead of making pronouncements about what you KNOW (which are just plain wrong in some cases), then I'll drop the condescending (note spelling) attitude. But until then, so long as you continue to announce what the "facts" are and declare that your mind will not be changed, I will continue to treat you as a snot-nosed 14-year-old for whom condescension seems appropriate.quote:
its not that im not willing to learn or have "my head in the sand" it's that nothing in evolution makes sense.
And you also stated that nothing would change your mind about that. Even if someone you looked up to and respected could teach you how evolution makes sense, you would refuse to listen. Also note that there's nobody telling you that just because something makes sense means it is, necessarily correct. Lots of things which "make sense" are actually wrong (like heavy things falling faster than lighter things, for just one example).quote:
and YOU not me are searching out things that you disagree with in what i say.
I'm not searching anything out - you are spouting Creationist arguments and outright lies which have been around for 30 years or more, kiddo. Nothing you have written is new, it's all re-warmed claptrap which has been refuted for almost as long as it's existed. If you think any of what you've written here so far is news to anyone who's responded to you, think again.quote:
and your not exactly looking like you jumping at a chance to "learn".
Again, this is all very old stuff. I've learned all sorts of things from these arguments, years ago. In the end, evolution make perfect sense to me. The idea of God makes sense to me also. I'm not the one saying that one denies the other, you are.quote:
and if you can give me five way the bible controdicts its self that are at all credible, ill be shocked
Who gets to decide what's "credible" and what isn't? You?
Heck, I'll do it, anyway, even though you've failed to answer my questions. I suppose I'll run with the New American Standard version of the Bible, since it's a popular one (I believe my Pentacostal aunt-in-law reads that one)...
Contradiction #1:quote:
2 Samuel 8:4 - David captured from him 1,700 horsemen and 20,000 foot soldiers; and David hamstrung the chariot horses, but reserved enough of them for 100 chariots.
1 Chronicles 18:4 - David took from him 1,000 chariots and 7,000 horsemen and 20,000 foot soldiers, and David hamstrung all the chariot horses, but reserved enough of them for 100 chariots.
Which is it? 1,700 horsemen or 7,000 horsemen? They both can't be correct.
Contradiction #2:quote:
Ezra 2:2 and Nehemiah 7:7 both start listing "The number of the men of the people of Israel":
Ezra 2:5 - the sons of Arah, 775;
Nehemiah 7:10 - the sons of Arah, 652;
Ezra 2:6 - the sons of Pahath-moab of the sons of Jeshua and Joab, 2,812;
Nehemiah 7:11 - the sons of Pahath-moab of the sons of Jeshua and Joab, 2,818;
Ezra 2:8 - the sons of Zattu, 945;
Nehemiah 7:13 - the sons of Zattu, 845;
Ezra 2:12 - the sons of Azgad, 1,222;
Nehemiah 7:17 - the sons of Azgad, 2,322;
Ezra 2:13 - the sons of Adonikam, 666;
Nehemiah 7:18 - the sons of Adonikam, 667;
Ezra 2:14 - the sons of Bigvai, 2,056;
Nehemiah 7:19 - the sons of Bigvai, 2,067;
Ezra 2:15 - the sons of Adin, 454;
Nehemiah 7:20 - the sons of Adin, 655;
Ezra 2:17 - the sons of Bezai, 323;
Nehemiah 7:22 - the sons of Hashum, 328;
Ezra 2:21,22 - the men of Bethlehem, 123; the men of Netophah, 56; (Or 179, total)
Nehemiah 7:26 - the men of Bethlehem and Netophah, 188;
Ezra 2:28 - the men of Bethel and Ai, 223;
Nehemiah 7:32 - the men of Bethel and Ai, 123;
Ezra 2:33 - the sons of Lod, Hadid and Ono, 725;
Nehemiah 7:37 - the sons of Lod, Hadid and Ono, 721;
Ezra 2:35 - the sons of Senaah, 3,630.
Nehemiah 7:38 - the sons of Senaah, 3,930.
Ezra 2:32 - the sons of Harim, 320;
Nehemiah 7:42 - the sons of Harim, 1,017.
Ezra 2:41 - The singers: the sons of Asaph, 128.
Nehemiah 7:44 - The singers: the sons of Asaph, 148.
Ezra 2:42 - The sons of the gatekeepers: the sons of Shallum, the sons of Ater, the sons of Talmon, the sons of Akkub, the sons of Hatita, the sons of Shobai, in all 139.
Nehemiah 7:45 - The gatekeepers: the sons of Shallum, the sons of Ater, the sons of Talmon, the sons of Akkub, the sons of Hatita, the sons of Shobai, 138.
Ezra 2:59,60 - Now these are those who came up from Tel-melah, Tel-harsha, Cherub, Addan and Immer, but they were not able to give evidence of their fathers' households and their descendants, whether they were of Israel: the sons of Delaiah, the sons of Tobiah, the sons of Nekoda, 652.
Nehemiah 7:61,62 - These were they who came up from Tel-melah, Tel-harsha, Cherub, Addon and Immer; but they could not show their fathers' houses or their descendants, whether they were of Israel: the sons of Delaiah, the sons of Tobiah, the sons of Nekoda, 642.
Ezra 2:65 - besides their male and female servants who numbered 7,337; and they had 200 singing men and women.
Nehemiah 7:67 - besides their male and their female servants, of whom there were 7,337; and they had 245 male and female singers.
Ezra 2:69 - According to their ability they gave to the treasury for the work 61,000 gold drachmas and 5,000 silver minas and 100 priestly garments.
Nehemiah 7:70-72 - Some from among the heads of fathers' households gave to the work. The governor gave to the treasury 1,000 gold drachmas, 50 basins, 530 priests' garments. Some of the heads of fathers' households gave into the treasury of the work 20,000 gold drachmas and 2,200 silver minas. That which the rest of the people gave was 20,000 gold drachmas and 2,000 silver minas and 67 priests' garments.
The above should count as 18 separate contradictions, but I'll be nice.
Contradiction #3:quote:
Jerem |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2003 : 13:08:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
While my own speling leaves something to be desired, I at least, try.
This is what the ABC-button is for. When you are not making a fast reply, you have all these little formatting buttons above, and the rightmost of them has ABC and a check under the letters. Click it before you post your new reply, and see wonderous things happen. It will not highlight grammatical errors, but it will highlight words that are not in this servers dictionary.
Try it, it (usually) works for me... 
Filthy, this one is obviously not intended for you, as you are one of the veterans here, but to all newcomers... |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 06/26/2003 13:25:14 |
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