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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
 Posted - 09/08/2003 : 15:29:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
mr. who:
I believe faith,hope,and love is something all people and creatures need to exsist even Carl Sagen. And without those three things nothing would want exsist.
Well, I hate to be the one to break it to you but Carl Sagan is dead. Also, I would be really surprised to learn that the praying mantis that ate the head off of her mate while copulating on my porch was thinking about faith, hope and love. My guess is she was simply and instinctively going about the business of perpetuation her species. That is the prime directive for all creatures, whether they know it or not. Our purpose is to survive long enough to copulate. After that, if we have big enough brains, we can contemplate more poetic notions about the meaning of life...
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2003 : 04:50:13 [Permalink]
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Intresting example, Kil.
Coincidently, a week or so ago I was discussing this very same subject with my grandkids, only I used spiders an an example. The kids were suitably shocked at this intimate canniblism.
It all makes perfect, evolutionary sense for the female to eat the male after copulation. She puts forth a great deal of energy in producing and protecting her eggs, and there are no guarentees that some hapless bug will enter her web. The nourishment from the male is very important to her and especally her prodgeny. There is even a species of spider that, when the eggs hatch, the young's first meal is their mother. Interesting, no?
I think that 'love' is strictly a rather lame, human invention, however 'friendship' is quite common in the animal world. It has been observed in toothed whales, canines, primates, and many others. Of particular interest are the vampire bats of Central and South America. If a bat should return from an unsuccessful night's foraging, it will go to a friend in the colony and beg a meal. The friend will generously regurgitate part of it's meal for it. And thus the colony reamins healthy, due in part to a series of close circles of friendship.
As far as 'faith' goes, I see little advantage in believing the unbelievable. And as for 'hope', it's been my experience that hopes are most often fulfilled when when they are kept within reason, and I work toward them.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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walt fristoe
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2003 : 10:28:22 [Permalink]
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| From what I understand, it's not just for an extra meal that the female mantis eats her mate, but also the fact that he, without his head, will copulate longer and more enthusiastically, thereby injecting more of his sperm into the female. Now that's love! |
"If God chose George Bus of all the people in the world, how good could God be?"
Bill Maher |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2003 : 11:32:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
I believe faith,hope,and love is something all people
...have in common. That I can agree on.
It is interesting that to be human is to have a belief system. We all do, some is based on mythology and some is based on a feeling of right and wrong that has not been deified.
An atheist (or any reasonable person) will say it is sick how Benny Hinn takes advantage of people or how horrible the drive by shooting of childeren is. This kind of thinking is of course a belief system of right and wrong.
Animals do not appear to have any of these traits of right or wrong - even herd animals. If a baby gets trampled to death when a male chases a female he wants to mate with, the other animals will think, "gee I"m kinda hungry or my butt itches".
We use to be that way - archeologists find human bones in the refuse or trash piles before ~40,000 years ago. I can't remember the exact date and I don't care to look it up. Then ~40,000 years ago burial of the dead with tools and possibly food is found. Art and effigy work begins to be seen. I suppose evolution has favored societies that have individuals who need to have a belief system. I would imagine that religion was very important to helping our ancestor win in competition over other human groups. A mind that needs a belief system can readily be converted to a myth or superstition that could help unit the tribe. A group of religios finatics not afraid to die because the will go to the 'happy hunting grounds' after death going against a group that is more of an "every man for himself" group, would have the clear advantage. A VAST simplification but you get the point.
We sit on a hillside at sunset and have a visceral reaction to how beautiful the view is. Our dog sitting next to us looks torwards the sunset and is searching for a rabbit to chase or the perfect tree to pee on.
It appears evolution created a population that is hardwired to need religion, and now (some) religion denies the existence of evolution. Kinda ironic.
I think that religion has been great and gotten us to this point in our history just fine. Now before religion leads to us destroy ourselves, I think that it is time to throw off the smothering effects of religion and follow the advice of John Lennon:
Why don't we do it in the road... opps, not that one:
...Imagine all the people living for today... Thats the ticket.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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