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englishwritersteve
New Member
Sweden
1 Post |
 Posted - 09/06/2003 : 10:39:49
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Tommy Boyd, a radio presenter of Talk Radio (now talksport) voiced a fascinating conspiracy theory. In 1945 there were supposedely 2 atomic bombs dropped on Japan, yet physics states that a nuclear bomb of the explosive kind shouldn't be possible. The bombs that were dropped were a series of incendiery devices, which had a radioactive element (to create deformities in children etc). The threat of Stalin taking over Europe was so great at this time that there needed to be a clear way to make the Russians scared to take the preliminary steps towards a take over, and of course for the japanese, stubborn as they were, to surrender.
A new scientist report from 1996 claimed that pakistani tests of nuclear arms had the force of "four or five sticks of dynamite" and were therefore purely cosmetic (a loud band and a bit of moving earth etc).
Videos of nuclear tests are dramatic, yet has anyone seen the camera move even an inch? And it's supposed to be in the EPICENTRE of the blast zone. Surely I'm not the only one who knows about this?
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ktesibios
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
 Posted - 09/06/2003 : 17:04:41 [Permalink]
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I'm no physicist, but as for the claim that "yet physics states that a nuclear bomb of the explosive kind shouldn't be possible", Richard Rhodes' The Making of the Atomic Bomb gives a pretty detailed account of the process- from the discovery of the neutron through the discovery of nuclear fission through the discovery of the differing fission characteristics of the isotopes of uranium- that led to the theory of the chain reaction and thence to the Bomb. Another book that's well worth reading, if you can find it, is one called "The Secret History of the Atomic Bomb", which is a concatenation of the Smyth Report with a lot of Manhattan Project documents that were declassified in the '80s.
The hypothesis that Japan was actually hit with a sort of combination incendiary/"dirty bomb" fails to account for some effects that were observed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki: the remarkable effects of the flash, including such things as "shadows in stone" and dark-colored designs being burned right out of fabrics and paper with less-absorptive light-colored areas being left untouched at distances of a couple of kilometers from the epicenter, and also for the appearance of radiation sickness just a couple of weeks after the bombings. Apart from the fact that the victims had been exposed to lethal whole-body doses of ionizing radiation in a very short time and became sick nearly in sychronism with each other, which is more consistent with exposure to a very short-lived, intense radiation source than with exposure to environmental contamination, the residual radiation levels in the bombed cities were low enough to permit military occupation to move in just a couple of months after the bombings. That doesn't seem very consistent with a "dirty bomb" sufficient in size to cause large numbers of radiation casualties.
Some postwar A-bomb tests included large numbers of eyewitnesses- troops positioned close enough to the detonation sites that some have been suing the government for damage to their health caused by their exposure to radiation.
The New Scientist reference sounds more like a disparaging, hyperbolic comment on the efficiency of the Pakistani bomb than something to be taken literally.
Perhaps some of our more scientifically knowledgeable members will comment in more detail, but even to my layman's knowledge of the A-bomb program, the whole thing has a distinct odor of equine byproduct. It also reminds me strongly of the plot of a '70s sci-fi potboiler called "The Jesus Factor". In that novel the central conceit was that an atomic bomb could be made to work, but not when it was in motion, i.e., tests worked, but a bomb usable in warfare was impossible.
Would that it were so... |
"The Republican agenda is to turn the United States into a third-world shithole." -P.Z.Myers |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2003 : 07:10:16 [Permalink]
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ktesibios, excellent post. You gave great evidence to debunk that post without having to resort to the technical reasons of why an A-bomb works (which would be completely lost on these conspiracy theroy nuts).
PS. As far as camera movement goes, I will bet that the cameras are not siting out in the open on a tripod!
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2003 : 16:01:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by englishwritersteve
Videos of nuclear tests are dramatic, yet has anyone seen the camera move even an inch? And it's supposed to be in the EPICENTRE of the blast zone. Surely I'm not the only one who knows about this?
Well, besides you, I guess a few of us here now know of this doofus claim.
Sounds like you've been reading a bunch of atomic hooie. If it's "supposed to be in the EPICENTRE of the blast zone", then tell us, how could any camera survive?
From Websters's New World Dictonary....
epicenter --
the area of the earth's surface directly above the place of origin, or focus, of an earthquake (....or atomic bomb blast).
I've seen plenty of shakey camera footage over the decades of various nuke tests. Some none at all; some more than others. Mostly they're anchored dozens of miles away from your EPICENTRE.
For close ups, plenty of atomic bomb test made use of extreme telescopic camera lenses. Had too -- how do you think they'd survive the blast? Oh yeah, you think these atomic blasts are a coverup.
For one, check the Baker mpeg for shockwave camera shake for that dumb claim:
http://www.nv.doe.gov/news&pubs/photos&films/0800002/Default.htm
A few other atomic test mpegs for perusing:
http://www.nv.doe.gov/news&pubs/photos&films/filmslisting.htm
quote:
Originally posted by fursur
PS. As far as camera movement goes, I will bet that the cameras are not siting out in the open on a tripod!
Or slung around the neck!
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"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
| Edited by - Randy on 09/08/2003 16:05:48 |
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Fireballn
Skeptic Friend
Canada
179 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2003 : 08:48:36 [Permalink]
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I can't see the conspiracy here. Have you ever seen the dreamland tapes? Concussion waves, radiation waves, live pigs in cages? Very destructive forces. The Japan bombs (uranium and plutonium) were small by todays standard, but were still able to level everything for a great distance. And yes the cameras where in boxes miles away. The larger bombs like hydrogen look as if they are taken from the air.
There is a test that would be conclusive.....grab you're camera, go a mile a mile or so away from a test site and start filming. If you arn't vaporized or blown apart....all apologies.
http://www.batguano.com/nuclear/nucgallery.html |
If i were the supreme being, I wouldn't have messed around with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers 8 o'clock day one!
-Time Bandits- |
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Fireballn
Skeptic Friend
Canada
179 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2003 : 09:06:47 [Permalink]
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| Oh...........how rude. Welcome here English... |
If i were the supreme being, I wouldn't have messed around with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers 8 o'clock day one!
-Time Bandits- |
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Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2003 : 05:25:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by englishwritersteve
Tommy Boyd, a radio presenter of Talk Radio (now talksport) voiced a fascinating conspiracy theory. In 1945 there were supposedely 2 atomic bombs dropped on Japan, yet physics states that a nuclear bomb of the explosive kind shouldn't be possible.
What physics would that be?
quote:
A new scientist report from 1996 claimed that pakistani tests of nuclear arms had the force of "four or five sticks of dynamite" and were therefore purely cosmetic (a loud band and a bit of moving earth etc).
I think they meant it wasn'ta very powerful detonation, perhaps?
quote:
Videos of nuclear tests are dramatic, yet has anyone seen the camera move even an inch? And it's supposed to be in the EPICENTRE of the blast zone. Surely I'm not the only one who knows about this?
It's not supposed to be in the epicentre of the blast, if it was, it would be evaporated. They look dramatic because they ARE dramatic. |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
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Pyrrho
New Member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2004 : 20:57:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by englishwritersteve
Tommy Boyd, a radio presenter of Talk Radio (now talksport) voiced a fascinating conspiracy theory. In 1945 there were supposedely 2 atomic bombs dropped on Japan, yet physics states that a nuclear bomb of the explosive kind shouldn't be possible. The bombs that were dropped were a series of incendiery devices, which had a radioactive element (to create deformities in children etc).
Someone else has pointed this out, but I'll repeat in stronger terms: this is a direct steal from the novel The Jesus Factor.
quote:
The threat of Stalin taking over Europe was so great at this time that there needed to be a clear way to make the Russians scared to take the preliminary steps towards a take over, and of course for the japanese, stubborn as they were, to surrender.
A new scientist report from 1996 claimed that pakistani tests of nuclear arms had the force of "four or five sticks of dynamite" and were therefore purely cosmetic (a loud band and a bit of moving earth etc).
Videos of nuclear tests are dramatic, yet has anyone seen the camera move even an inch? And it's supposed to be in the EPICENTRE of the blast zone. Surely I'm not the only one who knows about this?
Most of the photographs were taken from quite a distance away. |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2004 : 13:15:00 [Permalink]
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| The near in ground shots of the early tests were filmed in reverse with mirrors so that the cameras could be protected from the shockwaves. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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