|
|
|
|
furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
 Posted - 09/26/2003 : 09:55:20
|
Does anybody know of any movies or TV shows that feature time travel where they don't screw it up with logical impossibilities?
An example of screwed up time travel is Back to The Future. Marty changes the future and when he comes back almost everything is diferent. This presents the problem that he has no idea who his parents or siblings are. They have no shared memories. And where did the guy go (Marty 2?) that had lived with them for the previous 18 years?
A common occurance in these programs is a situation, for instance, where someone will be choking; the guy from the future will perform the Heimlich procedure and someone will say, "are you OK Dr. Hiemlich?". This is cute, but that means nobody ever came up with the original idea for the procedure.
Just wondering.
|
If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
|
|
Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2003 : 13:01:32 [Permalink]
|
I am assuming, furshur, that by "time travel" you mean travel backwards in time, since we are all technically travelling in time (forward) right now. There is also, as a friend of mine pointed out, cryogenic freezing, which is sort of time travel in reverse: you remain while time advances.
You want a movie without logical impossibilities, so what would you consider a logical possibility? You give two examples of what you don't like:
1. Somebody travels back in time, and the future timeline is changed, leading to the paradox of incongruity between the traveller's timeline and the new timeline. (This is nearly an example of the Many Worlds Interpretation of quantum mechanics.) Movie: Terminator
2. Sombody travels back in time, and the future timeline is not changed, leading to the paradox of the time loop: the events caused by the traveller would have reprecussions in the traveller's original time, instigating an event with no real beginning. (Do you believe in fate?) Movie: Terminator II
There is a third which combines a little chaos theory and a smattering of the MWI, which takes into account the significance of an event and assumes that any branching timeline "tries" to return to the original. (There have been some good books which feature this, most notably those by Connie Willis, To Say Nothing Of The Dog, and Doomsday Book.) Movie: Terminator III
If you will accept none of these, what will you accept? |
 |
|
|
Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2003 : 13:07:12 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by furshur
Does anybody know of any movies or TV shows that feature time travel where they don't screw it up with logical impossibilities?
An example of screwed up time travel is Back to The Future. Marty changes the future and when he comes back almost everything is diferent. This presents the problem that he has no idea who his parents or siblings are. They have no shared memories. And where did the guy go (Marty 2?) that had lived with them for the previous 18 years?
A common occurance in these programs is a situation, for instance, where someone will be choking; the guy from the future will perform the Heimlich procedure and someone will say, "are you OK Dr. Hiemlich?". This is cute, but that means nobody ever came up with the original idea for the procedure.
Just wondering.
There is an exellent brittish TV series starring Chloë Annett, called "Crime Traveller".
Chloë is a forensic scientist on brittish police force and solves crimes by using her late father's time machine to go back in time to gather evidence (and possibly see who did the crime).
The story is (I believe) unique because great care is taken in the script to avoid such paradoxes as you describe. We follow Holly Turner and Jeff Slade through the episode, and even before the crime is committed, we might see effects of what they do when they travel back in time, even if we don't realize it until the moment near the end of the episode. No paradoxes, and no logical fallacies, in the end every action is accounted for, and fits the viewer's memory, and the memories of all the characters of the plot.
Example: Even though police had increased security, a threatened woman was shot. An unidentified man was seen running from the scene of the crime, chased by the police, but the suspect managed to evade the police near a train station. Later in the episode, Holly and Jeff travel back in time to see who shot the woman. Jeff finds a rifle planted at a good place for a sniper-shot just as he hear the killing gun-shot. He realize that holding a potential murder-weapon is bad indeed, he might get incarcerated and miss his trip back to his own time, he drops the gun and runs like hell. Panicing, and tired of running he goes for the nearby train station which provides him with the best opportunity to loose the persuit. By then, Holly has managed to figure out Jeff was the "suspect" the police mentioned in the report, and is waiting with an escape car. They managed to get away, and finally solved the case.
Edit: some clarifications |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 09/26/2003 13:10:33 |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2003 : 13:14:24 [Permalink]
|
Doctor Who. Also Red Dwarf.
Fuck science; have some fun!
 |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
|
|
|
|
Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2003 : 13:43:03 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by furshur
Does anybody know of any movies or TV shows that feature time travel where they don't screw it up with logical impossibilities?
An example of screwed up time travel is Back to The Future. Marty changes the future and when he comes back almost everything is diferent. This presents the problem that he has no idea who his parents or siblings are. They have no shared memories. And where did the guy go (Marty 2?) that had lived with them for the previous 18 years?
A common occurance in these programs is a situation, for instance, where someone will be choking; the guy from the future will perform the Heimlich procedure and someone will say, "are you OK Dr. Hiemlich?". This is cute, but that means nobody ever came up with the original idea for the procedure.
Just wondering.
Possibly, "The Time Machine" (2002) with Guy Pearce, based on H.G. Wells' novel with the same name.
Alexander Hartdegen's girfriend is killed in an accident, and Alexander builds a time machine to go back in time to save her. But no matter how he tries he does not succeed. Instead, he travels forward in time in search for someone who can explain his failure, and gets caught in an adventure in the future. Finally he gets the explanation:
It's a paradox. If he goes back and saves his girl, he will not get the incentive to complete the time machine. After all, her death was what gave him the focus and purpose to finish it. Since he wouldn't have built the machine he wouldn't have come back to save her, so she dies.
The closest possible scenario that does not create a paradox is where he goes back in time, but still fail to save her.
There is also "The Time Machine" (1960) also credited to H.G. Wells, with Wells himself as lead actor. I haven't read the book, and have only seen a few glances of this 1960-version of the movie. Just enough to say that the adventure that takes place in the future is the same. I can't say anything about the beginning of it. Both portray the destruction of man-kind as we know it in the near future.
In the old version it was nuclear holocaust near the end of the 20th century - in the new version, man's greed prompted a cataclysmic accident in the beginning of the 21st. (Won't tell you more in case you decide to watch the movies) |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
|
|
|
Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2003 : 13:44:47 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Doctor Who. Also Red Dwarf.
Fuck science; have some fun!
Red Dwarf Rocks!!!
Especially time travel episodes, like "The Inquisitor" |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
|
|
|
walt fristoe
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2003 : 13:45:07 [Permalink]
|
| A Star Trek episode, The City on the Edge of Forever, written by Harlan Ellison, was an example of a non-logically-fallacious time travel story. Kirk tried his damndest to save Edith Wheeler's life, but was unable to do so. A very poignant tale! |
"If God chose George Bus of all the people in the world, how good could God be?"
Bill Maher |
|
|
|
Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2003 : 14:23:12 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by walt fristoe
A Star Trek episode, The City on the Edge of Forever, written by Harlan Ellison, was an example of a non-logically-fallacious time travel story. Kirk tried his damndest to save Edith Wheeler's life, but was unable to do so. A very poignant tale!
Yes, I remember it well. In the end, Kirk has to hold Bones back when Bones wants to stop Edith Wheeler from being run over by a car.
Star Trek usually have fairly decent time travel stories, but in TV and movie industry, true gems are few. Which is unfortunate, because I tend to like time-travel pieces. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 09/27/2003 14:29:00 |
|
|
|
walt fristoe
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2003 : 16:37:28 [Permalink]
|
Yeah, time travel stories are my favorite kind of sci-fi. But you're right, good ones are very rare.
Just for your amusement, I submit this website. I hope you enjoy it!  |
"If God chose George Bus of all the people in the world, how good could God be?"
Bill Maher |
|
|
|
Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2003 : 07:03:51 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by furshur
Does anybody know of any movies or TV shows that feature time travel where they don't screw it up with logical impossibilities?
An example of screwed up time travel is Back to The Future. Marty changes the future and when he comes back almost everything is diferent. This presents the problem that he has no idea who his parents or siblings are. They have no shared memories. And where did the guy go (Marty 2?) that had lived with them for the previous 18 years?
A common occurance in these programs is a situation, for instance, where someone will be choking; the guy from the future will perform the Heimlich procedure and someone will say, "are you OK Dr. Hiemlich?". This is cute, but that means nobody ever came up with the original idea for the procedure.
Just wondering.
Here's a couple which handle time travel a bit differently.
Time Shifters (1999): Time travelers as tourists. Changing the present for the main characters changes the future.
Millenium (1989): Person accidentally kills inventor of key piece of time machine before he has a chance to invent it. "Time quake" caused by paradox destroys future timeline.
|
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
|
|
|
Fireballn
Skeptic Friend
Canada
179 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2003 : 14:58:43 [Permalink]
|
| Does anyone remember the Ray Bradbury episode where hunters go back in time to hunt dinosaurs? Then one hunter steps off the path and kills a butterfly............then the nazis are in power when they get back. Doh!! |
If i were the supreme being, I wouldn't have messed around with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers 8 o'clock day one!
-Time Bandits- |
|
|
|
walt fristoe
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2003 : 12:07:26 [Permalink]
|
But all they'd have to do is to go back in time again to a point before he killed the butterfly and make sure he doesn't do it, right?  |
"If God chose George Bus of all the people in the world, how good could God be?"
Bill Maher |
|
|
|
Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2003 : 17:16:18 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by walt fristoe
But all they'd have to do is to go back in time again to a point before he killed the butterfly and make sure he doesn't do it, right?
Well, the dinosaurs were wiped out by Baldrick's dirty underware during Blackadder's trip back in time.
During the seventh season of Red Dwarf, the crew travelled back in time and interfered with the shooting of J.F. Kennedy. In trying to remedy the situation they travel back in time, goes to the building to get a good shot. They blow it, and goes back in time again, only to find out that their favourite spot was alredy taken... By them selves. So they go to another floor, but misses. And the have to go back again. Efter a few more mishaps, the whole building is full of Red Dwarf crews trying to get off the right shot. They finally enlist help from the least suspected person, and get off a clean shot from the only place not occupied: The grassy knoll... |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
|
|
|
ktesibios
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2003 : 12:52:49 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Fireballn
Does anyone remember the Ray Bradbury episode where hunters go back in time to hunt dinosaurs? Then one hunter steps off the path and kills a butterfly............then the nazis are in power when they get back. Doh!!
"A Sound of Thunder". In the short story, it wasn't the Nazis, it was that the results of an election held just before the hunters left their own time had changed and a truly vicious authoritarain politician was in power. If there was a TV adaptation, they might have used Nazis as a convenient visual abbreviation.
I think Douglas Adams' take on time travel paradoxes was unbeatable. He proposed that you can't alter history through time travel, since everything has happened before the things it would effect and it all fits together like a jigsaw puzzle. Also that there's no problem associated with accidentally becoming your own father or mother that a well-adjusted family can't deal with.
The really big problem was with grammar- languages just didn't have the appropriate tenses to cope with the experiences of time travelers.  |
"The Republican agenda is to turn the United States into a third-world shithole." -P.Z.Myers |
|
|
|
walt fristoe
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2003 : 14:02:18 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Well, the dinosaurs were wiped out by Baldrick's dirty underware during Blackadder's trip back in time.
Damn that Baldrick! Or bless him, as the case may be. |
"If God chose George Bus of all the people in the world, how good could God be?"
Bill Maher |
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
