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Tommy Jefferson
New Member
3 Posts |
 Posted - 07/19/2004 : 07:31:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by furshur
Thomas Jefferson repeatedly raped one of his slaves that was the same age as his daughter. When the slave became pregenant and had a child, Jefferson had the child raised as a slave in the slave quarters.
That's not true.
Don't live your life accepting whatever garbage some media outlet peddles. Like Science, History is based on facts.
Get your facts straight. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 09:29:24 [Permalink]
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Hi Tommy and welcome to SFN!
You are correct in asserting your views, but please provide a link or two supporting them. I am far too lazy to look them up myself, but will happily study those provided. 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 10:59:18 [Permalink]
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Tommy, here is a link to one take on this
http://www.monticello.org/plantation/hemingscontro/hemings-jefferson_contro.html
I made the judgement call that sex between a master and a slave is always rape.
The site Moticello.org implies that the DNA link is from one of Thomas Jeferson relatives.
Could be - it seems likely that Thomas was the father based on the circustantial evidence.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Tommy Jefferson
New Member
3 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 12:09:26 [Permalink]
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To pretend that facts do not matter and that acceptable interpretations can be drawn from false or non-existent evidence is to abandon the pursuit of truth altogether.
From the National Association of Scholars:
"According to the scholars' report, much of the evidence [that Jefferson fathered children with Hemings] consists of misleading or inaccurate facts. Among the most shocking is the revelation that a key document says precisely the opposite of what proponents of the allegation claim."
http://www.tjheritage.org/documents/NationalAssociationofScholars.pdf
Robert F. Turner, of the University of Virginia
Lance Banning, University of Kentucky
James Ceaser, University of Virginia
Robert H. Ferrell, Indiana University
Charles R. Kesler, Claremont McKenna College
Alf J. Mapp, Jr., Old Dominion University
Harvey C. Mansfield, Harvard University
David N. Mayer, Capital University
Forrest McDonald, University of Alabama
Thomas Traut, University of North Carolina School of Medicine
Walter E. Williams, George Mason University
Jean Yarbrough, Bowdoin College.
Yet, you issue statements like this...
"Thomas Jefferson repeatedly raped one of his slaves that was the same age as his daughter. When the slave became pregenant and had a child, Jefferson had the child raised as a slave in the slave quarters."
That is quite a *foul* thing to say about a person when the facts show nothing of the sort. Two dozen of Jefferson's relatives are genetically possible candidates for paternity.
Seek truth in facts. Don't believe everything the popular media tell you.
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 13:03:06 [Permalink]
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The purpose of the site that your link goes to is:
quote:
Purposes of the Thomas Jefferson Heritage Society
To further the honor and integrity of Thomas Jefferson, and to promote his vision and ideas,and their application in our times and in the future.
To pursue truth in all matters that touch upon the legacy of Thomas Jefferson.
To promote the principles of freedom, patriotism and truth, which were the hallmarks of Thomas Jefferson's life.
To sponsor and perform research in matters pertaining to the private and public life of Thomas Jefferson.
To stand always in opposition to those who would seek to undermine the integrity of Thomas Jefferson.
There is some bias inherent in that source. |
If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 02:26:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by furshur
The purpose of the site that your link goes to is:
quote:
Purposes of the Thomas Jefferson Heritage Society
To further the honor and integrity of Thomas Jefferson, and to promote his vision and ideas,and their application in our times and in the future.
To pursue truth in all matters that touch upon the legacy of Thomas Jefferson.
To promote the principles of freedom, patriotism and truth, which were the hallmarks of Thomas Jefferson's life.
To sponsor and perform research in matters pertaining to the private and public life of Thomas Jefferson.
To stand always in opposition to those who would seek to undermine the integrity of Thomas Jefferson.
There is some bias inherent in that source.
As well as internal inconsistency.
"To pursue truth in all matters that touch upon the legacy of Thomas Jefferson." may not be reconcilable with "the integrity of Thomas Jefferson"
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2004 : 06:47:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by creation88
I have heard many peope talking on here about the genius and great man that Charles Darwin was. Before you go off and consider him your hero, which I know at least one person on here has already said is the case. I thought there are some things you would probably like to know.
Here is an exerpt letter written by Darwin in 1881: "The more civalized Caucasian Races have beaten the turkish hollow in the struggle for existence. Looking at the world at no very distant date, what an endless number of lower races will have to be eliminated by the higher civalized races throughout the world".
Here is Darwins right hand man Thomas Huxley: "No rational man cognizent of all the facts, believes that the average Negro is the equal, still less the superior, of the white man.
Also, Arthur Kieth, a militant anti-christian physical anthropologist, who was close to Adolph Hitler said this: "The German Fuher, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consistently sought to make the practices of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.
You might think I'm reading into this to far but that tells me that Hitler was driven to kill millions of jews BECAUSE of evolution.
None of this really proves anyything against evolution. It's just some food for thought.
Darwin was a product of his times. Racism was commonly accepted. And eugenics - guided evolution? - was a very big idea at the turn of the last century. The idea of breeding out disease and 'weak' genes wasn't just a Nazi concept - though it was the Nazis that took it to such vile extremes, justifying genocide as a means to improve - or protect - the quality of the gene pool. Here in the US, sterilizations of retarded and mentally ill people was common practice.
And I'm still fascinated with the idea of producing a superman with selective breeding. I mean, it's almost certainly possible to create 'breeds' of human analagous to breeds of dog. Might we not be able to create a human being with all the 'best' qualities we see in the human race? Imagine a man free of genetic disease, with extended longevity, tremendous natural strength and stamina, genius level intelligence, perfect pitch, immense artistic ability, and so on (Anybody remember Ricardo Mantalban(sp?) as Kahn?). However, I'd not like to have to interview for a job against a guy like that - LOL. I think the dangers of such a thing are obvious, but I'm still curious what the capabilities of such a person might be. |
-Chaloobi
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2004 : 08:38:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
And I'm still fascinated with the idea of producing a superman with selective breeding. I mean, it's almost certainly possible to create 'breeds' of human analagous to breeds of dog. Might we not be able to create a human being with all the 'best' qualities we see in the human race? Imagine a man free of genetic disease, with extended longevity, tremendous natural strength and stamina, genius level intelligence, perfect pitch, immense artistic ability, and so on (Anybody remember Ricardo Mantalban(sp?) as Kahn?). However, I'd not like to have to interview for a job against a guy like that - LOL. I think the dangers of such a thing are obvious, but I'm still curious what the capabilities of such a person might be.
It's possible that we will see all of this, and more, in the near future. (near as in 20-40 years) Not through any type of eugenics or breeding program either, but through deliberate alteration of the genome. Hopefully we can avoid the insanity of Kahn and the frightening horror of Gattica.... by making these things cheap and available to as many as possible. The ethics of these things is incredibly complex, and there are many things outside the pure science that need to be considered... like the impact of extending human life expectancy closer to the projected lifespan (like 120 years) on the, environment, economy, social programs, retirement, ect...
It's a snarly mess.... |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2004 : 11:09:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
And I'm still fascinated with the idea of producing a superman with selective breeding. I mean, it's almost certainly possible to create 'breeds' of human analagous to breeds of dog. Might we not be able to create a human being with all the 'best' qualities we see in the human race? Imagine a man free of genetic disease, with extended longevity, tremendous natural strength and stamina, genius level intelligence, perfect pitch, immense artistic ability, and so on (Anybody remember Ricardo Mantalban(sp?) as Kahn?). However, I'd not like to have to interview for a job against a guy like that - LOL. I think the dangers of such a thing are obvious, but I'm still curious what the capabilities of such a person might be.
It's possible that we will see all of this, and more, in the near future. (near as in 20-40 years) Not through any type of eugenics or breeding program either, but through deliberate alteration of the genome. Hopefully we can avoid the insanity of Kahn and the frightening horror of Gattica.... by making these things cheap and available to as many as possible. The ethics of these things is incredibly complex, and there are many things outside the pure science that need to be considered... like the impact of extending human life expectancy closer to the projected lifespan (like 120 years) on the, environment, economy, social programs, retirement, ect...
It's a snarly mess....
Well if we keep electing fundie governments, we won't have to worry about it. GW's doing everything he can to hold back any research that might offend God. |
-Chaloobi
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2004 : 15:51:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi
Imagine a man free of genetic disease, with extended longevity, tremendous natural strength and stamina, genius level intelligence, perfect pitch, immense artistic ability, and so on (Anybody remember Ricardo Mantalban(sp?) as Kahn?).
Ofcourse I do. The original series, first season, title "Space seed" if I'm not mistaken. The name of the ship was "Botany Bay". Then the second movie, "The Wrath of Kahn".
I think the danger of such a person becoming unstable is great. Once he realize he's superior in every way, what guarantee do we have that he/she doesn't start treating us as inferiors? "let's play master and servants..." |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2004 : 17:19:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
I think the danger of such a person becoming unstable is great. Once he realize he's superior in every way, what guarantee do we have that he/she doesn't start treating us as inferiors? "let's play master and servants..."
That's an extremely slippery slope Mab..... There is alot of speculation about the corrupting effects of power, and alot of corrupt people end up in positions of power.... I don't believe there is a causal link between the two. More likely, corrupt people seek power.
I have signifigant doubt that a "Kahn" situation would ever become a reality, of that anyone who benefits from biotechnology in the future would become somehow antagonistic towards people who were not. |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Tommy Jefferson
New Member
3 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2004 : 10:26:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by furshurThere is some bias inherent in that source.
As there was in your post calling Jefferson a rapist. |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2004 : 10:34:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi
Imagine a man free of genetic disease, with extended longevity, tremendous natural strength and stamina, genius level intelligence, perfect pitch, immense artistic ability, and so on (Anybody remember Ricardo Mantalban(sp?) as Kahn?).
Ofcourse I do. The original series, first season, title "Space seed" if I'm not mistaken. The name of the ship was "Botany Bay". Then the second movie, "The Wrath of Kahn".
I think the danger of such a person becoming unstable is great. Once he realize he's superior in every way, what guarantee do we have that he/she doesn't start treating us as inferiors? "let's play master and servants..."
The genetecally pefect human being endowed with all of humanity's best qualities and greatest abilities should be Master of all the mongrel masses. |
-Chaloobi
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SciFi Chick
Skeptic Friend
USA
99 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2004 : 10:50:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi
The genetecally pefect human being endowed with all of humanity's best qualities and greatest abilities should be Master of all the mongrel masses.
Are you joking? If not, then please tell me who gets to decide what genetically perfect means? Who decides what humanity's best qualities and greatest abilities are? What constitutes the "mongrel masses"? |
"There is no 'I' in TEAM, but there is an 'M' and an 'E'." -Carson
"Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud."
-Sophocles |
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