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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 11/04/2003 : 18:50:37 [Permalink]
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I wrote:quote:
Why He chose not to just snap His "fingers" and create us is not something that we mere mortals were not meant to know.
Stupid double-negatives. Let me try again:
Why He chose not to just snap His "fingers" and create us is something that we mere mortals were not meant to know. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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byhisgrace88
Formerly "creation88"
USA
166 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2003 : 22:30:47 [Permalink]
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Dr.Mabuse :"You lied to us. Then you didn't even bother to cover it up."
Excuse me?!?!?!?!!? I could care less if you disagree with me on pretty much everything. But when have I ever "lied to you"?!?!?!
And I said straight up, "I realize that I have been known to so the same thing". Saying that I knew I shouldn't have gone about it the way that I did.
It's quite obvious now that you are just looking to criisize me whenever possible.
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Indeed, if we consider the unblushing promises of reward and the staggering nature of the rewards promised in the Gospels, it would seem that Our Lord finds our desire, not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.-- C.S. Lewis |
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2003 : 05:21:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
C88, On Fire, can y'all please direct me to any place in the Bible that an actual, real lie was was told by the devil. Man, I looked. I found a few places where he told the truth, (if you consider the serpent to be Lucifer), but I wasn't actually able to find a lie--Just the accusation of lies. If I remember correctly, didn't Luci even tell the truth when he tempted Christ?
This is an honest, and a serious request. In my readings of the Bible, I seem to have skipped right over all of his lies. I don't always retain what I've read well. |
"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2003 : 00:26:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by creation88
Dr.Mabuse :"You lied to us. Then you didn't even bother to cover it up."
Excuse me?!?!?!?!!?
In late June you wrote:"Yes I have looked into many religions, including hinduism, buddhist, and many others. "
Then later you admit that your only contact with them is through the Bible (which says that all other religions are false). But the lie is that you said "looked into many religions", when in fact you haven't.
I bet you don't even know what religion Siddartha Guatama belongs to without looking it up with Google.
C88: "Nothing in evolution has ever made any sense to me. When I say Doesn't make sense I don't mean I don't understand it. I mean it doesn't add up."
You said that you "understand" evolution, but when jmcginn makes a 14 point list for defence/evidence of evolution you fail to acknowledge understanding a single point's relation to evolution.
http://www.skepticfriends.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2111&whichpage=2
quote:
It's quite obvious now that you are just looking to criisize me whenever possible.
It's not that I'm going out of my way to do so. As long as you continue posting objectional ideas as if it was the truth, I'm going to object, and try to set the facts straight. It's all a pleasure of mine, and I do it for free.
Hippy4Christ is much more fun than you, because he(?) actually asks for our opinion, and what we think of stuff. After that he comes with new questions that prove that he actually understood what we were saying. Not blaring out this-is-the-truth-haha-how-do-you-respond-to-a-14-year-who's-right stuff about a shrinking sun or that neanderthals being ordinary humans with Down's Syndrome. When we try to tell you that you have based your opinions of wrong/false information you just shut your ears and say it doesn't matter what we say, you won't change your mind anyway.
Hippy4Christ seems to be open to new ideas.
I posted refutes to those two above ("shrinking sun", and "Down's") by the way. You haven't responded to either of them. Have you even read them? |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2003 : 01:56:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by On fire for Christ
John 8: 42
Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
I'm not ignorantly going to claim there isn't any evidence for evolution. There is a lot. Afterall what better way would there be for Satan to convince us there is no God or divine creation?
Sometimes I see the works of such ignorance that could make anyone depressed about the humankind. According to you, ALL evidence is the product of your fictional character Satan in order to convince us that your fictional character God doesn't exist. |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2003 : 06:04:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Maverick
Sometimes I see the works of such ignorance that could make anyone depressed about the humankind. According to you, ALL evidence is the product of your fictional character Satan in order to convince us that your fictional character God doesn't exist.
Maverick, I think you made them speechless... |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Maglev
Skeptic Friend
Canada
65 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2003 : 09:54:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by moakley
quote:
One more thing. Let us not forget that satan/hell are constructs of christian mythology. An early recognition that fear can be quite a motivator for the weak.
Didn't the Pope last year (or was it two years ago?) remind its flock that Heaven and Hell dont "physicaly" exist? That beleivers ARE in heaven as we speak, and that non-beleivers ARE in hell right now? I'm in hell! And you know what? It's not as bad as some people would make it 
Could someone confirm/deny that? I tried to find some article confirming this, but no luck. Maybe Satan put that idea in my brain...
Originally posted by Randy
quote:
"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer".
My favourite quote so far!
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Maglev
"The awe it inspired in me made the awe that people talk about in respect of religious experience seem, frankly, silly beside it. I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day."
--Douglas Adams, on evolutionary biology. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2003 : 20:39:19 [Permalink]
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Maglev wrote:quote:
Could someone confirm/deny that?
Well, I went to the Vatican's Homepage, hoping to find a list of all Papal proclamations in chronological order, and heavily referenced, but didn't luck into one.
Not that it really matters, since the Catholic version of Heaven and Hell and what it takes to get there (or not) aren't necessarily in agreement with O.f.f. Christ's beliefs on the subject. Since the Pope declared that evolution is "more than just a theory," and found no true conflict between evolution and the Catholic faith, I'd wager that O.f.f. Christ thinks, like my wife's Pentacostal aunt, that "the Pope is an idiot" (her exact words on the evolution subject).
In other words, what Catholics think about Heaven and Hell probably won't make a bit of difference to a few folks around here, but it's interesting none-the-less. I did find hints (in the Catchecism, there are sections on "Heaven" and "Hell") that you might be remembering correctly, but everything I read only seemed to apply after death. The number-one punishment in "Hell" is being separated from God for eternity. While you're alive, you don't get the "eternity" part of that, since you're still able to repent.
Of course, thinking about that some more, why death should matter is beyond me. If you repent after you die, what's the big deal? Or is a person stripped of their "free will" when the soul departs the body? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Maglev
Skeptic Friend
Canada
65 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2003 : 22:10:05 [Permalink]
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Maglev (I) wrote:quote:
Could someone confirm/deny that?
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Well, I went to the Vatican's Homepage, hoping to find a list of all Papal proclamations in chronological order, and heavily referenced, but didn't luck into one.
AH ah! I knew I wasn`t that crazy (or senile). Here's what I was looking for. I typed "Pope defines heaven hell" in Google and came up with this;
Should we lose the fear of Hell? Pope redefines the doctrine
It's not exactly what I was looking for, It's more of a commentary/analysis of what the pope said. It's from AP, but I couldn't confirm. I like this quote:
quote:
"More than a physical place," the pope declared, "hell is the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God."
Oh. Well that about wraps it up for me I guess. |
Maglev
"The awe it inspired in me made the awe that people talk about in respect of religious experience seem, frankly, silly beside it. I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day."
--Douglas Adams, on evolutionary biology. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2003 : 22:51:35 [Permalink]
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Maglev wrote:quote:
It's not exactly what I was looking for, It's more of a commentary/analysis of what the pope said. It's from AP, but I couldn't confirm. I like this quote:quote:
"More than a physical place," the pope declared, "hell is the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God."
Well, it gives us more clues. Unfortunately, a search of the Vatican site for the phrase "more than a physical place" returns zero results. However, a search for "physical hell" turned up this August 4, 1999 address, which seems about the right time, according to the AP article.
However, as I said before, I think the term "definitively" means "at the point where you die." If such is the case, it's not possible to truly live in a state of hell, since you can "revoke" your separation from God at any time while still breathing.
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- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Phobos
New Member
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2003 : 15:43:07 [Permalink]
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| Wouldn't it be nice if On Fire For Christ could stick around and actually take part in a discussion? |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2003 : 16:06:35 [Permalink]
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| Or show up on any of the chat sessions. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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PopeFelix
New Member
USA
1 Post |
Posted - 11/26/2003 : 08:48:18 [Permalink]
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I'm praying for all of you -- praying that your critical thinking spreads to more people!
:) |
It is an ill wind that blows no minds. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2003 : 09:09:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by PopeFelix
I'm praying for all of you -- praying that your critical thinking spreads to more people!
:)
Greetings Yer Emminance, and welcome to to our fractious and oft heretical, little congregation!
Collectivly, thanks for the compliment, and we're hoping that you not only enjoy the services, but take a part in them as well. Looking forward to your input.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2003 : 20:52:43 [Permalink]
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Posted by Phobosquote:
Wouldn't it be nice if On Fire For Christ could stick around and actually take part in a discussion?
Not likely. The most recent posters from the ranks of the Christian intelligentsia seem to be most comfortable with the internet version of the drive-by.
There was a time when people like Doomar and Darwin Alogos stuck around for awhile and actually followed up on his or her arguments. Lately, Doomar seems merely to scan this board when the occasional mood strikes him. DA seems to have gone into SFN retirement.
The more recent dissident posters seem more interested in dropping poorly made, and poorly placed bombs before running for the sanctity of anonymity. Hell, I'm not even sure if they're true believers or regulars trying to generate a little controversy--Perhaps a spark!
I sorta miss the Christian folk.
Unfortunately, few people actually have the time or the patience to debate for any length of time when they are so overwhelmingly outnumbered, and so vociferously opposed.
As for my personal feelings, I read few threads and post to fewer these days. It feels too much like the futility of preaching to the choir. I am no longer moved to reference my assertions, or to follow through with my arguments. What is the point when those that read it are only interested in the accuracy of the argument, rather than the content of that argument? For instance, I could make a reference that will quite likely be scrutinized by several here, (especially Dave W--the Research King  ), but the content will have little meaning to those that already hold the same opinion. It's like beating a different drum to the identical beat--its just background. It makes the sound richer, but adds little to the overall composition.
Two factors, I think, account for the waning interest exhibited even by most of the founding members of this board. The first being a lack of meaningful debate. The second being the inability of this little board to attract HooDoo people, true believers and those supporters of the political right on a consistent basis. Without these folks we are only a tiny choir singing into emptiness.
Without strongly held, but opposing opinions we all eventually go soft. Our curiosity seems best peaked by controversy. Perhaps, it's time that we consider going to other boards, chat groups and news groups to invite others to join the discussion.
I would endorse this idea, but I would not attempt such action without a consensus of the members. Perhaps, the moderator of this forum could move this post to General Discussion, that is if the moderator is still around. Perhaps, someone other than myself may be interested in more animated debate?
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"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
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